Yes, it's been beat to death...which locker?

[Nutz]

Ok I can already hear the groaning out there, I know that this one has been beat to death over and over but I'm still debating about the solution. Which stinkin locker (or LSD)! I have a '04 TJ with a 4.0 and 5-spd...4.5" RE LA...35's...D44/D30 with 3.73's and open diffs...I need to get my gearing fixed. It's a DD and also gets flat towed behind a motorhome. Offroad I use it more as an exploration vehicle than hardcore trail rig...however it's not only used on dirt roads...as an example, I'm planning on Hole-in-the-Rock this year. DD in snow is a slight concern but I'm not sure that it's a major factor in the decision because it just doesn't seem that I've drove in much snow over the past couple of years...yes I need to be able to drive the combination in snow but not more than a couple times a year and I generally have other vehicles available. The options that I'm considering are:

Whatever combination I end up with I'm planning on 4:56 R&P's and Alloy axles front & rear.

ARB's F/R:Seems that the pro's are of the selectables they have the best reputation and being a selectable it's seamless for a DD. Con's...is it just me or does it seem that for every person that says they're reliable there is another that says that they won't engage or have O-ring problems or any number of other problems...somewhat complex with additional hardware and expensive?

Detroit Locker Rear: Pro's: Detroit seems to have a great reputation for reliability (other than with a broken axle) and they're simple...no external 'stuff' and less expensive than selectable. Con's: drivability in a DD...especially a 5-spd TJ?

Eaton E-Locker: This is the only other selectable that is currently of interest to me...currently only available for my D44 but supposedly available for the D30 in 30-60 days (I'm skeptical) but then I've considered this option for the rear and a Truetrac in front (see below).

Detroit Locker Front: If the rare case came up that I needed to commute in the snow is this even drivable in 4wd?

Truetrac Front: Nice to have but do I really need a front locker..in a flexy LA TJ how does the combination of rear locker and front Truetrac LSD work? Also, with the 'little' D30 seems that the LSD option may be a little 'easier' on the front axle than a locker?

Thanks in advance

 

[BlackSheep]

seems to me that if you are flat towing it, you would want something selectable for both front and rear. This solves your drivability issues in snow, ice and wet as well.

As for the front, since you say you're not wicked hardcore, maybe lsd is the right way to go. certainly cheaper, and my friend went a lot of places with only the limited slip in the rear and open up front. Watch what you get though, as his LSD seemed to wear over time, and became less and less effective.

 

[Nutz]

seems to me that if you are flat towing it, you would want something selectable for both front and rear. This solves your drivability issues in snow, ice and wet as well.

As for the front, since you say you're not wicked hardcore, maybe lsd is the right way to go. certainly cheaper, and my friend went a lot of places with only the limited slip in the rear and open up front. Watch what you get though, as his LSD seemed to wear over time, and became less and less effective.

Thanks BlackSheep. I'm not sure if flat towing is a problem or not? When flat towing I put the TC in Neutral so the driveshafts are 'Free'...seems that a Detroit isn't locked when there isn't any load on the DS; however, I do need to think about snow.

In an LSD I'm potentially thinking Truetrac because they're helical gear...no friction materials to wear out...I think they're consistent over time and don't require any special lubes? It will be interesting to learn from some that have run locked in the rear and LSD in the front...how capable?

 

[78mitsu]

A friend of mine rolled a zj this winter because of the handling characteristics of a locker in the rear, I'd go selectable if it's a street driven rig or spool. that way there is no lock/unlock it either is or it isn't

 

[offroaddave]

A friend of mine rolled a zj this winter because of the handling characteristics of a locker in the rear, I'd go selectable if it's a street driven rig or spool. that way there is no lock/unlock it either is or it isn't

WOW!!
That's amazing. Are you sure you can blame it on a locker?
I don't know but it sounds like operator error from what you've said.
They certaintly don't handle like an open diff, but i'm guessing your friend liked the way a locked up rear gets way loose when you break the rears free, and found some sticky surface that pushed the jeep over.


Could be wrong, i usually am. :-\

 

[waynehartwig]

Honestly, if you aren't into 4-5 rated trails, then LSD's front and rear will do you nicely. However, what happens once you get some LSD's and the ability to go more places, will you? No sense in spending lots of $'s now and then in a year doing it all over again.

The Detroit True Trac's are nice. Like you said, they are a gear style LSD so there is no clutches to wear nor friction modifiers needed. But they also don't 'limited slip' as well as a clutch style. A clutch style is also adjustable with a tighter spring or thicker clutch packs. If you buy an oil that is GL5 or GL6 compliant (Valvoline synblend is a good one that I use pretty exclusively) then you don't need the modifiers anyway.

Solid Detroit's will give you under/over steer. You're correct when you say they are locked with a load on the driveline. When that load is removed, say in the middle of a corner after you realize you might be going a bit fast, then you will have a jerk reaction. You will also have some of this with a LSD, though, but not as bad.

My favorite selectable is the ARB. They are just as bullet proof as a Detroit, IMO. Yes, you hear of lines breaking/getting cut or O rings leaking, but not internals - unless you bend your housing. ...Or the locker isn't installed right

To me, those are the three differentials I favor... The ARB is definately the most expensive, but I feel it also has the best advantages.

 

[Nutz]

So Wayne...why is it that the solution is always the expensive one Seriously I hear you regarding going with LSD's just to want more capability and redo in a year Seems like I had what originally seemed like a great RE SA suspension only to 'need' a LA later Also, could be that I haven't searched out 4-5 rated trails because of inexperience and open diffs.

 

[waynehartwig]

So Wayne...why is it that the solution is always the expensive one Seriously I hear you regarding going with LSD's just to want more capability and redo in a year Seems like I had what originally seemed like a great RE SA suspension only to 'need' a LA later Also, could be that I haven't searched out 4-5 rated trails because of inexperience and open diffs.

Exactly. You could always go cheap, and do lockrites right now. That will get you locked so you can be more 'adventurious'. If it turns out that you like the locker and the more extreme stuff, you can do ARB's later, or just keep using the lockrites until they fail. The lockrites are also very easy to install and can be installed in about an hour (or two) on your next diff fluid change.

 

[Nutz]

Exactly. You could always go cheap, and do lockrites right now. That will get you locked so you can be more 'adventurious'. If it turns out that you like the locker and the more extreme stuff, you can do ARB's later, or just keep using the lockrites until they fail. The lockrites are also very easy to install and can be installed in about an hour (or two) on your next diff fluid change.

Yes I would love to go cheap for now but lockers are only part of my problem...3.73's and 35's aren't exactly a perfect combo So if I'm going gears it seems that I just as well go with new carriers at the same time...and as usual one thing leads to another so while it's apart I just as well go with Alloy axles because I may need them long term anyway...it doesn't take long to rack up about $3k in parts and I've still got a 'little' D30....guess it just comes down to have to pay-to-play.

 

[bradm]

I went thru this same debate with my XJ a few years back. I finally just ponied up the dough and went ARB's front and rear along with deeper gears. I have no regrets.

 

[yellowbronco]

I agree with Wayne and mortimer, ARBs. It will be worth it even if you have to wait a little longer.

 

[tagaustatoppen]

I have a D30, D44 combo I have the 30 spline ARB in the D30 and the Eaton in the D44 I have enjoyed this combo for what I have done. I think it would have been ok to have the back locked all the time. I can't say weither I like the eaton or the arb better. They both have done very well. I think the bigger problem is how to stop breaking ball joints and axle shafts. Upgrade Axles! I think that I will be putting the D30 on the market soon. Thats one way it's cheaper for you anyhow... buy used. Those axle upgrades will have to wait untill after 9 june though.

 

[tagaustatoppen]

BAD THOUGHTS!!! My actual thoughts, junk the D30 and D44 get D60's or something to its equivalent.

 

[Meat_]

BAD THOUGHTS!!! My actual thoughts, junk the D30 and D44 get D60's or something to its equivalent.

Good eye.

 

[waynehartwig]

Yes I would love to go cheap for now but lockers are only part of my problem...3.73's and 35's aren't exactly a perfect combo So if I'm going gears it seems that I just as well go with new carriers at the same time...and as usual one thing leads to another so while it's apart I just as well go with Alloy axles because I may need them long term anyway...it doesn't take long to rack up about $3k in parts and I've still got a 'little' D30....guess it just comes down to have to pay-to-play.

That's all true... But now it comes down to do you want to spend the $'s to make it happen?

 

[timpanogos]

That's all true... But now it comes down to do you want to spend the $'s to make it happen?

Figure up what you think its gonna cost. Multiply that by about 4. Tell the wife the first number, but you better count on the second

 

[Devel]

i have an 02 TJ with a D30 and a D35 (i know i know:-\ ) i have a lockrite in the front and a LSD in the back, i put my lockrite in last June and i already have to replace the springs so i would stay away from the lockrites, unless you like to tear apart ur Jeep. i like my LSD in the back for a daily driver, if i could afford ARB's i would have them but im not goin to waiste the money for these axles, it has always been reliable for me

 

[waynehartwig]

Figure up what you think its gonna cost. Multiply that by about 4. Tell the wife the first number, but you better count on the second

...Yeah, and then don't tell her it was actually the second!

Oh, and don't let her try to use the bank card while you are buying things.... She tried to use it at the bank yesterday and didn't think she had the pin right after two tries and canceled the transaction. Then went to use it at Arby's and it was declined. So she thought she messed up the card and called the bank. The guy then told her it was over the daily limit becuase there was a ~$6k charge on it today, but I'll increase the daily limit today. Then comes the phone call.... What did you spend $6k on????
Me: Ugh, the Jeep
Her: Oh, it's costing that much?
Me: Yeah, but I can sell my old stuff for $8k, so I'll get that money back.
Her: Oh, ok...As long as you can do that it's ok I guess...

Yeah, she doesn't know about the other ~$6k!!! :sick: Or the $2k in tires and wheels....

 

[Nutz]

...Yeah, and then don't tell her it was actually the second!

Oh, and don't let her try to use the bank card while you are buying things.... She tried to use it at the bank yesterday and didn't think she had the pin right after two tries and canceled the transaction. Then went to use it at Arby's and it was declined. So she thought she messed up the card and called the bank. The guy then told her it was over the daily limit becuase there was a ~$6k charge on it today, but I'll increase the daily limit today. Then comes the phone call.... What did you spend $6k on????
Me: Ugh, the Jeep
Her: Oh, it's costing that much?
Me: Yeah, but I can sell my old stuff for $8k, so I'll get that money back.
Her: Oh, ok...As long as you can do that it's ok I guess...

Yeah, she doesn't know about the other ~$6k!!! :sick: Or the $2k in tires and wheels....

Wayne...you're killing me...this is too funny but a little to familiar

 

[timpanogos]

I'm a recent new comer to this wife/jeep deal.

I come home one day and she is sitting at the table ... with the "Look". The tension in the air raised the hair on the back of my neck.

Lot’s of looks, nothing being said … YET … and I notice that sitting on the table in front of her is a monthly visa statement. The first of several to follow.

My only defense was that the new rubi + 5k of lift and 2k of other enhancements we looked at was WAY more than what I was doing here.

Scary stuff!