'96 ZJ (V8 5.2L) TH350 NP203/205 Help

[rockedoffroad]

My first post here, because I cannot (and I mean CANNOT) find anybody, anywhere, anytime that has ever even thought about doing this kind of setup in a ZJ. I already have a 350 with a torque converter, 27 spline GM NP203 plus the 350 adapter, and a 31 spline Ford NP205. I am going to machine my doubler adapter using .75" 6160 billet aluminum once the material gets here, and I am sending my 203 shaft off to Jeds to be resplined. Same plan with the Mopar 318 small block to TH350 adapter, because $700 (Wilcap Co.) for a thin plate of aluminum and a new flex plate is just way too much. What I'm trying to say is, the adapters are the least of my concern.

*What I am worried about is getting the 350 in there and having problems with all of my sensors and PCM.*

I just don't have enough experience with older trannies in newer setups so I have no idea if my crank positioning sensor will need changing or if my PCM will need reprogramming, that kinda stuff. And who knows, maybe it will go right in and I won't have any problems, I just don't want to go into it and get set back for a month because of my lack of research. Any info on any of this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[thenag]

If the 5.2 was ever offered with a manual transmission you could try a pcm from that and see how it works.

Have you called any of the performance flash guys?
http://www.bgperformance.com/

I had a conversation about gm pcm's and it seems there are multiple places that would be able to do something similar to a gm pcm, I don't know of any for Chrysler stuff. (bg was quick google, they may not be able to what you need, but worth a call)

I also thought about putting a 203/205 in my xj, I think if you score a dodge 203 (which came in pretty much every ram charger) it may bolt up to the zj transmission, just something else to consider...

Nathan

 

[jeep-N-montero]

My first post here, because I cannot (and I mean CANNOT) find anybody, anywhere, anytime that has ever even thought about doing this kind of setup in a ZJ. I already have a 350 with a torque converter, 27 spline GM NP203 plus the 350 adapter, and a 31 spline Ford NP205. I am going to machine my doubler adapter using .75" 6160 billet aluminum once the material gets here, and I am sending my 203 shaft off to Jeds to be resplined. Same plan with the Mopar 318 small block to TH350 adapter, because $700 (Wilcap Co.) for a thin plate of aluminum and a new flex plate is just way too much. What I'm trying to say is, the adapters are the least of my concern.

*What I am worried about is getting the 350 in there and having problems with all of my sensors and PCM.*

I just don't have enough experience with older trannies in newer setups so I have no idea if my crank positioning sensor will need changing or if my PCM will need reprogramming, that kinda stuff. And who knows, maybe it will go right in and I won't have any problems, I just don't want to go into it and get set back for a month because of my lack of research. Any info on any of this would be greatly appreciated.

Eek, maybe Gertsch will chime in, he knows a bit about tranny swaps in these things. The biggest question is why are you trying to do it? Some folks have swapped the GM engines into them but I haven't heard of bastardizing the Mopar and GM parts together. The ZJ did come with a manual option in 1993 and part way into 1994, but we are talking about 1500 total units I was told.

 

[gertsch]

Sure the swap can be done but the computer is harder to deal with on 96 and newer zj's. mostly because of the computer is shared between the engine and transmission. But if I remember right you can swap a manual trans truck computer in from the same model years.

what is your goal here? Are you mostly doing the trans swap for the 203/205 or cause you want to get rid if the 46r transmission?

 

[Gravy]

Why swap a modern 4 speed with a 3 speed non overdrive trans? seems like there are dozens of other low range combos.

 

[iamsparticus]

id go with a more modern trans like the 4l60e if you want the GM trans, or figure out a better low gear option if your PCM dosent see the tranny chances are it will go into a limp mode

 

[rockedoffroad]

If the 5.2 was ever offered with a manual transmission you could try a pcm from that and see how it works.

Have you called any of the performance flash guys?
http://www.bgperformance.com/

I had a conversation about gm pcm's and it seems there are multiple places that would be able to do something similar to a gm pcm, I don't know of any for Chrysler stuff. (bg was quick google, they may not be able to what you need, but worth a call)

I also thought about putting a 203/205 in my xj, I think if you score a dodge 203 (which came in pretty much every ram charger) it may bolt up to the zj transmission, just something else to consider...

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I emailed a few guys from BG but they all told me to talk to novak. They helped with the crank positioning sensor, and told me that if I could somehow get it to give a signal to the comp. that they think I would be in business.

About the 203/205 with the stock tranny: the main reason I am even doing this whole swap is because the 44re trans is so weak. I bought it knowing I needed to replace it because it was already slipping and wouldn't shift into 3rd or 4th. I have the option of rebuilding it with 46re internals, but I just don't want to have to rebuild a tranny any time soon, plus I already had the 350.

Eek, maybe Gertsch will chime in, he knows a bit about tranny swaps in these things. The biggest question is why are you trying to do it? Some folks have swapped the GM engines into them but I haven't heard of bastardizing the Mopar and GM parts together. The ZJ did come with a manual option in 1993 and part way into 1994, but we are talking about 1500 total units I was told.

Like I said above, I'm only trying to do it because 1: The stock 44re was shot anyway, and super weak, and 2: I already had the 350

Sure the swap can be done but the computer is harder to deal with on 96 and newer zj's. mostly because of the computer is shared between the engine and transmission. But if I remember right you can swap a manual trans truck computer in from the same model years.

what is your goal here? Are you mostly doing the trans swap for the 203/205 or cause you want to get rid if the 46r transmission?

Both. I had the 350, wanted to get rid of the 44re, and it fit in nicely for a doubler, which I had wanted to do since the beginning. With the manual trans truck computer you're talking about, is that from the same here as the 350 or the same year as the ZJ?

 

[rockedoffroad]

Why swap a modern 4 speed with a 3 speed non overdrive trans? seems like there are dozens of other low range combos.

Biggest reason is strength. The stock tranny compared to a 350 is ridiculously weak, and my buddy was going to put it in a wrangler he had but then sold, so it was free for me.

And with the 4l60e (or even a 4l80e or 4l85e) it could be even worse than the 350 swap because of the external PCM they used. You can get external trans controller for these but they cost a pretty penny. It would probably be more compatible but I would need to find one first, then figure out yet another adapter for the doubler and engine, and make sure my controllers were all set up correctly.

 

[Tacoma]

Then use a 700r4. I think you're going to end throwing good money after bad with the jeep-to-gm swap though, and the 203/205 doubler is a heavy, hp-robbing pig.

 

[gertsch]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I emailed a few guys from BG but they all told me to talk to novak. They helped with the crank positioning sensor, and told me that if I could somehow get it to give a signal to the comp. that they think I would be in business.

About the 203/205 with the stock tranny: the main reason I am even doing this whole swap is because the 44re trans is so weak. I bought it knowing I needed to replace it because it was already slipping and wouldn't shift into 3rd or 4th. I have the option of rebuilding it with 46re internals, but I just don't want to have to rebuild a tranny any time soon, plus I already had the 350.



Like I said above, I'm only trying to do it because 1: The stock 44re was shot anyway, and super weak, and 2: I already had the 350



Both. I had the 350, wanted to get rid of the 44re, and it fit in nicely for a doubler, which I had wanted to do since the beginning. With the manual trans truck computer you're talking about, is that from the same here as the 350 or the same year as the ZJ?

youd want the same here or newer PCM as the zj. Something from a Dakota or a ram 1500 with a 5.2 and a manual trans.

 

[Gravy]

Sell your th350 and get a good 44re. Or do the internal swap. I can guarantee you'll spend more time figuring wiring harness swaps and crossmembers than it takes to rebuild a trans.
If your dead set on GM Get a 700r4.
But either way it's a tall order to fit that huge doubler combo without some serious floor hacking and refab.

 

[rockedoffroad]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will start looking more into a internal swap, for it seems that would be the best way to go in my situation. What would you suggest for a transfer case? I will be running a Dana 60 out of a 2000 Ford F-350 (balljoints, high pinion, 3.73 gears) with a 14 bolt rear. Something like a 231/231 doubler, 242, stock 249? What do ya think?

 

[jeep-N-montero]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. I will start looking more into a internal swap, for it seems that would be the best way to go in my situation. What would you suggest for a transfer case? I will be running a Dana 60 out of a 2000 Ford F-350 (balljoints, high pinion, 3.73 gears) with a 14 bolt rear. Something like a 231/231 doubler, 242, stock 249? What do ya think?

With the v8 power you can get away with the 242 gearing. What are you planning to run for the suspension setup?

 

[rockedoffroad]

I've got a friend that has a set of 4" rough countries that he is thinking of getting rid of. If I don't go with them, I will probably end up just making a set of pucks for it, and I am in the process of fabbing my custom long arm kit.

 

[rockedoffroad]

So I've read baxy on JeepForums' 46re rebuild post about 10 times now, and I feel pretty comfortable about rebuilding a 44 with the 46 internals (link http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f13/46re-tutorial-911009/). From everything that I have checked and part number cross-referenced, the front and rear drum/clutch assemblies should fit in the 44re case, the 46re VB should go right in as well, and all of the servo's are compatible. The OD unit will also swap right over, and then I should be in business. The only thing that I worry about by running the 242 alone is the gearing. 2.72:1 is very respectable with one case, but it's not the 4:1 I was planning on having with the doubler.

 

[RockChucker]

check out behemouthdrivetrain.com. they have a pretty killer little "crawl box" that seems to be on par with the price of a nasty looking box4rox from dd machine. it is probably a little shorter too.

 

[Gravy]

Nasty looking? 18 7/8" total length, a stock 231 is 16 7/8"

231 to 300 or 231 to 205 isn't a bad option.

but I do think that Behemoth drivetrain doubler looks cool. Pretty much a DIY case very similar to a Klune underdrive you stick your 231 or 241 planetary gearset into.

 

[jeep-N-montero]

I've got a friend that has a set of 4" rough countries that he is thinking of getting rid of. If I don't go with them, I will probably end up just making a set of pucks for it, and I am in the process of fabbing my custom long arm kit.

Spend the money on a decent set of coils and Bilstein shocks, saves money in the long run when you end up doing it 2 or 3 times to get it right.

 

[rockedoffroad]

I like the looks of that 231/300 setup. I've never really looked into flipping one before. How tough is it?

 

[rockedoffroad]

Good to know on the coils. Thanks. And I looked into doing the 300 swap vs a 231/205 doubler. Since I already have the 205 and it looks like a pretty decent setup, I think I might put one together eventually. For now I'm just going to throw on a stock 231. I'll have the 44/46 hybrid done by this weekend, and its turning out pretty sweet. I'll have to start another thread with all of the pictures I've got. Thanks for all of the help here. Credit for pic of the 231/205 doubler goes to AgitatedPancake.