Brainstorming my next rig. How to fit 4 mountain bikes inside a 4x4.

[TRD270]

Super helpful, thanks! Which truck did you prefer when you weren't towing? The F150s seem huge to me, and don't seem to have a lot of ground clearance. Granted, I'm not in 4-low very often, but I do like to get off the beaten path. A 2015+ F150 is going to be more money than I'll want to spend. Have they fixed the condensation issues with the ecoboosts?

F150's may seem huge but after driving both I feel the F150 has more visibility and doesn't feel as big driving. As Eric said condensation has been taken care of for about 6 years. F150's do have no ground clearance I scraped mine all the time just on Potash Road. You'll have to take a look at Eric's when you get back into town, his little lift helped a lot.

One thing with the Ecoboost which hasn't seem to been a problem for anyone on here, and it may just be a difference in cooling for the F150 vs the Expedition. But the trailer I tow with my expedition is right around 8500lbs, and anytime I pull a grade with the temp above 70 it will overheat.

I loved my 2014 Ram 2500 Cummins, that being said I think i'm over diesels as well. Unless I get to a point where i'm towing weekly I don't think i'll ever own one again. These new gas motors are just to good, 8k less from the get go and way cheaper maintenance. And for the cost of the diesel you could rebuild the gasser every 100k and still come out ahead with money for gas.

 

[Kevin B.]

The only draw back on a CC is that you cannot reach back to put a binki in, or give them a bottle very easily. It's a long reach.

I read bikini here, and I was about to pose several questions about your parenting habits.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I think some day you'll have to get over your Toyota love affair, they don't make the perfect thing for everything. (although maybe close)

If my wife is dependable, low maintenance, always there for me, and beautiful, I don't need to get over her. Same goes for my trucks.

 

[sixstringsteve]

I was hoping my Ford would be as reliable as my old toyotas since it has the legendary 7.3L. The motor has been fine, and I'm sure it will go many hundreds of thousands of miles longer, but I've had more little things go wrong with this rig than on any other vehicle I've owned. I've replaced almost everything on the van now, but there are still a few little things that drive me crazy. I'm not impressed with the way Ford is building their transits now either. Hopefully the F150s are a different story.

I'm glad to hear others love their fords. I went into this Ford with an open mind, hoping for some of that legendary reliability, but it just hasn't been there. While toyotas aren't perfect, or the class-leader in gadgets, interior room, cup holders, or number of speeds in a transmission, they are reliable, and reliability goes super far for me. When a rig isn't reliable, I don't have much peace of mind when I'm driving across the US. It's hard to remain positive when you have to fix a million little gremlins, and it leaves you wondering if the rig ever WILL leave you stranded. If you're 20 miles from home, and you have buddies to help you tow it to your shop, no big deal. When you're 5 states away from anyone you know, towing your house, it's a pretty big deal if something goes wrong.

I'd rather be out riding my bike than chasing down parts, anticipating which dealership I'll be at in a week to schedule an appointment to have them fix something that shouldn't have broken in the first place.

 

[sixstringsteve]

If I were to get another Ford, it would be an ecoboost F150 with the heavy duty tow stuff. I've been impressed with Frieed's ecoboost, as well as Corban's ecoboost truck.

I am admittedly irrationally prejudiced against dodges (I have no idea why, other than Marc's horrid experiences with his and some friends who had bad issues with their liberties and promasters). I feel like dodges are cheap and unreliable (except for the cummins dodges of course), but these are all just anecdotal stories from friends driving this bias.

I'm open minded and optimistic about chevy trucks though. I like the LS platform, and I think an 8.1L pickup would be great. They're just impossible to find without high miles. My family had a few suburbans and they were good rigs.

 

[Bob B]

I see Freds size to the biggest benefit, especially now!! These are just somethings I thought of.

I like the idea of keeping Fred and putting a seat in the back area. I think putting a car seat in and out with a large sliding door would be much easier than with the smaller door of a Tundra. If climbing up into the van to put the kid in the seat is an issue, put the kid on the floor first, climb up into the van and then secure the kid in the vehicle seat. If you are not feeling confident about doing the seat securing work, there are a ton of guys (myself included) on this site that are more than capable of putting a seat (of the quality needed to make you feel reassured) into your van and making it safer than the stock seat ever could have been..

Also, the extra space to get up and move around/ tend to the kiddo while driving (if necessary) would be a lot easier than twisting around to deal with issues. Plus Fender would still have room in the vehicle.

I see the size of the van over the Tundra being a benefit for you (steve). Working while Tess drives seems like it would be more comfortable in the larger van. Also, it might be a good place to go have privacy for work, for things like video calls etc, if the little one is fussing and its raining outside and they cant be outside. (for example)

I know you love building vehicles, and my wife and I have watched all the vids you guys have done, so we sort of see how you have used Fred. I know theres some work needed to get Fred ready to handle a kid in the capacity you guys will need, but it would be much less than starting over with a new vehicle and trying to make it what you are already used to.

These are just my .02
Congrats to you guys and the exciting news.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Thanks Bob, those are some fantastic points. I love being able to stand up in the van, change clothes, move around, work from it, have a fridge, etc. I like the idea of putting a seat toward the back of the entrance (closer to the bikes) too.

I'm confident securing a seat, but my wife will see it as "not factory" and she'll think it's somehow going to hurt the baby because it doesn't have the "safety hooks from the factory." I've got some convincing to do on that one, but I do think it's the least intrusive option so far.

I actually don't want another project. I want a change, but I just want to snap my fingers and have the new rig done. Not very feasible at all, but work has been too busy lately to have time for big projects. I'm sure once I get a house one day I'll have a project or two, but for now, I've really enjoyed having zero projects. That's probably why I'm hyper sensitive to a less than reliable vehicle.

 

[moab_cj5]

Super helpful, thanks! Which truck did you prefer when you weren't towing? The F150s seem huge to me, and don't seem to have a lot of ground clearance. Granted, I'm not in 4-low very often, but I do like to get off the beaten path. A 2015+ F150 is going to be more money than I'll want to spend. Have they fixed the condensation issues with the ecoboosts?

Full disclosure, I have been a Ford fan for as long as I can remember. I have also owned 3 F150's (an 80, an 09, and a 14). I have only owned 1 Tundra. I bought the 09 and 14 F150 new. The 09 had the 5.4, and 60k miles when I sold it, the 14 had the EcoBoost and 20k miles when I traded it on an Explorer for my wife.

To your question: I liked them both, but definitely enjoyed almost everything about the F150 more. The Tundra CC had more cab space than the CC F150, and felt cavernous inside. The Tundra felt MUCH wider, and my wife even hit a shopping cart coral with the Tundra, which is funny because the F150 was a CC 6.5' bed, the Tundra was a CC short bed. I did like the sound of the V8 in the Tundra though. The EcoBoost has TONS of power and torque, and never left me wanting for anything, except a better exhaust note (trivial to many, but I REALLY like the sound of a V8).

The fit and finish in the F150 was better, as was the driver controls and access. I HATED that I couldn't make simple user changes in the Tundra that I could in the F150 (like turning off the easy exit crap) without going to a dealer. I think they changed that in 16 in the Tundra, but in my 14 it was a dealer change item. I am not afraid of the bells and whistles either.

When I bought the Tundra, I was searching for an F150, but couldn't find the exact configuration I was looking for. I got pissed and settled on the Tundra. The Tundra was an awesome truck, but there was enough I personally didn't love about it that it wasn't a hard decision to sell it. If I had found the F150 with everything I was looking for, I might still have it, but who knows. I go through cars often.

I know the Cummins is a great engine, but I have had too many bad experiences with Chrysler vehicles (Jeeps) to ever try another one. I know too many people that have had issues too. No manufacturer is perfect (I have had issues with my Lexus' too, think brake booster on my GX 470, head gasket on a 90 4R, Head Unit issues in my 14 Tundra), but I had WAY too many problems with stuff that shouldn't have been an issue in the Chryslers I have owned. Fords have always been reliable for me. I know people that have had issues with Fords too, but my personal experience has been good.

 

[frieed]

I remember stuffing two adults and a car seat into my '88 toyota pickup. that lasted all of one ride.

 

[frieed]

Two years back when we sold our trailer my plan was to trade the F-150 on a new Rubicon.
I found the one I wanted in Bountiful the next day and went for a test-drive. After the drive, I realized I could not part with the truck.

 

[frieed]

If I were to get another Ford, it would be an ecoboost F150 with the heavy duty tow stuff. ..

Do you need the heavy duty payload capacity? if so you look for 7 lug wheels vs 6 lug, but they're pretty rare.
Also, 3.73 vs 3.55 rear end is not an issue with an ecoboost and a 6k trailer, also, 3.55 e-lockers are common. Mines effectively a 3.43 now (3.55*32/33) due to larger tires and had no issues with my 8.2k? load (trailer and stuff). 3.31 is a different story, but you will find only 3.73's in the heavy payload package, optional in other packages.

 

[johngottfredson]

I agree with those saying keep the van. But for discussion sake, I shopped tundras hard before settling on my Ecoboost f150. I have more confidence in the longevity of the toyota, so I bought the dealer extended warranty to 100k. At that point I'll sell it or buy another 100k warranty. On my last 7.3 super duty, it may have had the legendary motor, but in my first year of ownership I replaced transmission, starter, and injectors. Only 120k miles. Swore I would never do Ford again. However, after 33k miles on my '16 it drives like new and puts a smile on my face every day. I got the super cab over the crew cab, which is my biggest regret. But I got rear locker, big gas tank, seating for six, $36k brand new. Tundra does not offer a locker, big gas tank only on models with center console so no 6 passenger. My fuel economy is great.
I want a tundra. But until they can option a truck for me, I'm prolly sticking with f150. Great truck.
Also, dimensionally almost identical to the tundra equally configured.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Emotionally, I'm done with the van. I've had to fix too many little things. Right now it has some electrical gremlins that I can't figure out. I've spent $1000 at two different shops trying to diagnose and fix the issues, but no luck. High beams only work when I hold the temporary lever on. When I push on the lever to leave them on, the high beams turn on but I lose all tail lights and turn signals. Parking lights no longer work. Power door locks don't work, despite replacing all the actuators. I've replaced all light switches and actuators, but that just cost me money and didn't solve a thing. Even if I were able to fix all of these things tomorrow, the issues I've run into have caused me to lose confidence in this rig. Once I lose confidence, it's tough to want to keep driving it.

I can make the van work, but all the little issues are starting to annoy me. None of these will leave me stranded on the side of the road, but it's annoying, and I'm ready to move on from a diesel rig. I'm glad the chassis, motor, and trans are so bulletproof, but I'd like something a little newer with fewer little issues and the simplicity of a gas engine.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Here's where my head is right now. I can pick up a 2009 4x4 tundra doublecab with 100k miles for $18k. I feel like I could drive that for another 150k+ miles without any big expenses or major issues. I could put $2k into it for a bigger fuel tank, new tires, and brakes. I personally don't see a reason to buy a newer/more expensive tundra, when the old ones are so reliable. Plus, I'd still probably be able to sell the truck for $12k even though it would have 250k on the clock.

I know the ecoboost is a great motor, but 'd be worried buying an ecoboost with 100k on the clock. Who knows, maybe the motor would make it to 250k, but I'd be worried about the rest of the truck having issues in the next 150k.

I feel like a new $40-60k truck will have a lot more power and fancy features, but I don't see it holding its value, or being worth $20-40k more than a used tundra.

So, while I agree that a brand new F150 ecoboost is a great option for new pickups, I feel like it would be better to spend $18-22k on a less powerful used Tundra that would still meet my reliability and comfort needs well enough. I don't see myself spending more than $30k for a truck, unless there's a huge reliability or performance advantage that will make a big difference every day. I'm trying to be open minded about options, but that's where my head is at right now.

At the moment, my biggest challenge is how I would fit 4 bikes into the back of a tundra.

 

[nnnnnate]

I'll add a couple thoughts as others have from the perspective of a dad with a 2 year old.

You'll want a bench or more seats where the kid is strapped in for your longer trips. On the hauls it'll be helpful to be able to sit back there with the kid to feed or entertain or whatever. For this reason, a single seat in Fred absolutely wouldn't work for me, I'd want at least 2 but more likely a bench. I think my boy travels pretty well. We've done decent trips but at a certain point he always decides hes done and its usually not when we are about to arrive. Thats when the extra seat next to him comes into play.

For the first while the kid will be in an infant car seat. You strap them in before lifting them into the car and the seat clicks into a base. Those are easy in and easy out and there isn't much fussing around when you are at the car. Later, and depending on how to the tee you are with the "mom blog recs" the kid will move up to a big kid chair, rear facing first then front facing. These are the ones that are HUGE and its because they grow with the kid. They take up the most room while rear facing because they have to be pretty level front to back. (Ours has a little level on it to tell you when its good to go for each position.)

Stratton mentioned that the easy latches that are built in to cars aren't anything special. They are nice to use when you are in the infant stage to lock in the base and now we are in the big chair forward facing its nice to have it locked in so we don't have to mess around with it each time we load up. I agree that they aren't necessary (you can use a regular seat belt without a base in the infant chair just as easy and quick if you go with someone else) but the benefit of them is that you can set it up and know that the seat is installed well and correctly then all you have to deal with is getting the kid strapped in. There are plenty of things to distract a parent so simple is good in my mind.

I'm tall and my wife is short. You guys aren't particularly tall so you're going to use side steps when you load up the kid. Its just the way it is and unless you're buying a sedan or a minivan thats what you're going to use. Maybe you'll be able to lift the kid up into the base or seat but to get them buckled you'll need to step up like my wife does. Its really not a big deal.

As I read your other posts I keep thinking that a 200 would be pretty perfect other than the bikes. Its got the 5.7, is comfortable, has a 8500 lb tow capacity, and isn't crazy big. I'd want to line it up in front of the airstream to check out the mirrors and stuff (and probably pick up extenders for towing regardless) but if the trailer tows as good as you say it does I think it'd be a match made in heaven. Barring that I personally would end up in a 3/4 ton pickup with a short bed. Are they really that much bigger than Fred?

Good luck Steve, this is exciting.

 

[nnnnnate]

One more thought. You've got the audience and friends around the US now I bet you could hit up people in the area you are in (NORCAL right?) with the vehicles you are looking at to check the load outs you're considering.

 

[Corban_White]

My dad has an 07 Tundra 5.7 and I have a 12 ecoboost f150. I have towed several trailers with both of them. My ecoboost has the max tow package (3.73 gears, beefed up hitch, heavier sway bar, different steering rack ratio). He currently tows a 34' fifth wheel with the Tundra and it pulls just fine. He does have airbags and upgraded tires. He is usually in 4th gear while towing and gets about 9mpg. I get about 9mpg in my truck towing my Palomini but it is in 6th gear. It almost never downshifts, the boost just comes up. MPG on the freeway is mostly a function of wind resistance, not weight. He has owned his since 08 and it has had it's fair share of issues but nothing really unexpected. A few months ago he did have to replace the head gaskets (catastrophic failure blowing all the coolant out under the hood while towing on the freeway) but that could have happened to anyone, especially when they spend as much time as him with the skinny pedal on the floor and the r's up. His has more low end torque, but once the boost comes up my eco pulls better. We both have the biggest cabs and I wouldn't have it any other way (but I don't put bikes inside-I understand the need for a longer bed). I guess what I'm saying is they're both great trucks, it just boils down to what you like. I looked at both when I got mine and the reasons I went with the Ford were 2-fold. First, I really like turbos. Second, to get a comparable (mileage and options) Tundra was ~$10K more than the eco.

On the issue of bed storage, we've gone through this at work several times. My ideal solution is a 4x4 van. That is not an option (work will only buy the big 3) and I have to have 4x4 to access my sites so we've been experimenting. I currently have 2 trucks with this:
http://www.4are.com/product/commercial_aluminum/?cp=dcu
One has the tailgate and one has barn doors and while we quite like them (they are also available in high top versions-we have cab height and stow ladders on top) the best option in my mind is something like this:
https://www.readingbody.com/product/spacemaster-service-truck-bodies/
or this:
https://www.knapheide.com/kuv-bodies/kuvcc-p9
or this:
https://www.alumline.com/products/service-bodies/service-body-enclosed-models
They add less weight than you think and will allow a ton of functionality. Having the toolboxes accessible from the outside is SOOO much better and you still get the space to store bikes. I would go with the double cab Tundra and the 8' bed. It isn't going to affect the turning radius that much (it will probably still turn better than your van) and will add a lot of space. The other advantage of one of those service bodies is that they don't care what truck they go on, all they care about is the cab to axle measurement. Which means if you get one made for an 8' bed it should move to any other truck with an 8' bed.

I'm happy to arrange a test tow with either truck and show you around some of our work trucks if you're in Orem. Let me know.

 

[BlueWolfFab]

I don't know your thoughts on something like this, I don't have much input as my current and future needs are different than yours. But this crossed my mind.

 

[sixstringsteve]

Nate and Corban, those posts were immensely helpful, thank you! Chance, you and nate have the same idea!

It seems like most people buy EcoBoosts new. Corban, I seem to remember you buying yours used. What should I be looking out for if I buy used, and how much should i expect to pay?

 

[Deleted member 12904]

So as far as fitting bikes in a tundra instead of a full custom bed what about a utility shell? My old work put these on every truck. They are built to order and can be made in any height so you could avoid having to remove the front wheel and they will color match. In fact we had a dodge with a shell so tall you could almost stand in it. they called it hightop. The large side doors are nice especially if you have full length nerf bars or steps so its easy to access the front of the bed. They lock down very secure and as long as you dont order them with glass are surprisingly difficult to break into. Maybe Im under estimating the size of current mountain bikes but Ive had 3 dirt bikes in the back of a tundra with the only issue being length. Are mountain bikes as long as dirtbikes?