Don't Like Hearing The Truth

[jeepelements]

mbryson: Ok here is more to the story when Parker and his guys spune the axale they spun the axle with the new axle tubeing in the leath yes the new tubeing is true, but they welded the new tubeing to the old and the sleeved. When you sleeve an axle I have been told that you should have at least 4 to 6 inches sleeved into the new tube they had only 1 inche sleeved into the tube. 1 inch is not enough to hold the axle straight when you weld the tube the heat as all of us that weld know the heat will pull the material. This can even be seen by looking down the shaft you can see that is is not straight. That is why the houseing spins out of balance on the leath. explane this to me and ask shops for your self that have sleeved axles they will tell you that you should have a least 4 to 6 inches. For all of you that thinks Bill put me up to this you are wrong. You all need to apoligize to him all he has done is be a friend and a great one at that . Oh sorry off of the topic

 

[mbryson]

How can I change this topic so it sticks to the topic of the axle i thought that i put the topic out there. Give me an example of this topic of how I can say they screwed up my axle. with out telling the story of what happened

Do you still want to do anything with this?

 

[mbryson]

mbryson: Ok here is more to the story when Parker and his guys spune the axale they spun the axle with the new axle tubeing in the leath yes the new tubeing is true, but they welded the new tubeing to the old and the sleeved. When you sleeve an axle I have been told that you should have at least 4 to 6 inches sleeved into the new tube they had only 1 inche sleeved into the tube. 1 inch is not enough to hold the axle straight when you weld the tube the heat as all of us that weld know the heat will pull the material. This can even be seen by looking down the shaft you can see that is is not straight. That is why the houseing spins out of balance on the leath. explane this to me and ask shops for your self that have sleeved axles they will tell you that you should have a least 4 to 6 inches. For all of you that thinks Bill put me up to this you are wrong. You all need to apoligize to him all he has done is be a friend and a great one at that . Oh sorry off of the topic

I'm totally not qualified to comment on that. I've never cut down/retubed an axle and don't intend to have it done.

Let's not even go into the Bill thing. {I think he thinks he's a great guy, and I'm sure he is in his own way. Online, he comes across as a total uneducated ass that has an axe to grind against someone he used to work for. In my opinion, there are MUCH better ways to handle the situation than how he has chosen to do it. From my perspective as a moderator, he's a total pain. I've competed in UROC next to him and felt like he was a pretty decent guy in person. I'm not even sure he'd know who I am, but that really doesn't matter. I understand he or his family had some health issues that took him out of the business for a while and I honestly wish him and his family the best and hope all is well.}

............Customer buys axle off of e-bay… tubes had been cut off (leaving ½” of tube on each side) bearing caps don’t match housing (shouldn’t have ever accepted housing… lesson learned).

However, Parker's explanation seems pretty logical that the long side is square to the housing and the short side seems bent 3/8". I'd say your pumpkin has seen better days (total layman's observation--I'm not any kind of authority or anything). For how easy and cheap it is to get another D44 housing, I don't understand why you don't just snag another one, take it down to Outer Limits and see what you get. That's what I would do if I was in your shoes. (and I've had plenty of experience with bent housings (dana 30) and what they can do to carriers. You're throwing good money after bad if the housing is tweaked. Get a different one.)

It seems that you didn't give them a lot to work with if the above quote from Parker is true {I've known him long enough to think I can make a judgement on that}. You're stating that they should have 'sleeved' the axle 4-6" when there is only 1/2" to work with. Sounds like they did what they could with what YOU gave them. Again, some pictures or some kind of supporting evidence would help anyone make a judgement for themselves if your intent is to 'slander' the shop in question.

{observation: your writing seems to have improved enough that I can read your posts without the previous pain. Congratulations and thanks!}

 

[jeepelements]

mbryson Dana 44 what?

This is a Dana 60 they are a lot harder to find and cost a lot more

 

[mbryson]

This is a Dana 60 they are a lot harder to find and cost a lot more

Reverse cut, I assume? A standard cut would be easy to find. Would one out of a late model Dodge or F*rd work out (with the unit bearing outers that you can get quite a bit cheaper)? You've got all the expensive stuff (knuckles/shafts/outers/hubs/etc.) if you've got a complete front. It's just not worth it to try to work with a jacked housing, IMHO.

 

[jeepelements]

Jacked houseing no

It its not a jacked houseing the only thing wrong with it is the bearing caps are wrong i have a guy that is going to line bore them to fit. The only thing that was wrong with it is when they welded it the heat pulled it out of true and no enough sleeve

 

[mbryson]

It its not a jacked houseing the only thing wrong with it is the bearing caps are wrong i have a guy that is going to line bore them to fit. The only thing that was wrong with it is when they welded it the heat pulled it out of true and no enough sleeve

OK, and I can't do ANYTHING about that. Whether they are right or you are right and what I think has absolutely no bearing on how YOU can get this issue resolved. If Parker pulled the caps off and set the housing on a flat surface and it was wobbly, I wouldn't use it. Parker is a very reasonable, knowledgeable guy (if you'd talked as much sh!t about my shop as you have his, I wouldn't give you the time of day, so he's a better man than me by still being willing to work with you). I'd be shocked to learn he's trying to screw you somehow. He has absolutely NOTHING to gain and everything to lose as a new shop.

I'm quoting myself now........

........It seems that you didn't give them a lot to work with if the above quote from Parker is true {I've known him long enough to think I can make a judgement on that}. You're stating that they should have 'sleeved' the axle 4-6" when there is only 1/2" to work with. Sounds like they did what they could with what YOU gave them. Again, some pictures or some kind of supporting evidence would help anyone make a judgement for themselves if your intent is to 'slander' the shop in question.........

Used stuff (your axle) is used and there is NO guarantee that you got a straight housing to start with. Maybe your E-bay guy knew he had a bad housing and unloaded it on you, the unsuspecting buyer. Why are you only buying a centersection with 1/2" of tube sticking out of each side since your own statement indicates you need 4-6" to sleeve it properly? Who knows why the source truck was in the junk?

 

[Parker]

It its not a jacked houseing the only thing wrong with it is the bearing caps are wrong i have a guy that is going to line bore them to fit. The only thing that was wrong with it is when they welded it the heat pulled it out of true and no enough sleeve

If you don’t want to admit to general public that the housing is sprung… fine. You’ve got some kind of grudge against the owner of Outer Limit, which is obvious. You have never dealt with him EVER… yet because of what Bill has filled your head with you are determined to be ignorant. I’m not going to try and win any arguments or delve into the past. That has absolutely nothing to do with me, you, or Bill for that matter. I’ve always just been concerned with the customer (you) getting taken care of. Outer Limit has spoken w/ TeraFlex again and they have no intentions of touching your sprung housing. I truly hope that someone can help you to your satisfaction. I’ll stand by my word… if you get me a new housing, I’ll be more than happy to build it to your specs. Thanks again.

 

[H-K]

ouch

MOST SMALL SHOP DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TOOL TO DO AXLES THE RIGHT WAY.

FROM WHAT I NOW THERE ARE JUST A FEW COMPANYS OUT THEIR THAT DO.




WILD BILL

dis mayks me I's hert an ME EERS TWO!

 

[Milner]

I probably should not reply to this thread at all, but I am confused.
I am truly trying to look at this situation objectively, personal issues aside.
See if I have this right....
1.Parks says the the housing is sprung ie bent.
2.Elements says the bending came after the tubes were replaced.
3.The housing Elements bought off Ebay was just a center with a little tube sticking out.
4.OLM was contracted to tube this. (frt w/knuckles or rear tubes only????)
5.Caps were mismatched

Is that about it?

First, Parks is about the only one down there I would trust, but this whole thing seems very odd....

In 17 years since my first job in a shop, I have not seen a bent 60 center section. Seen broken ones, spun ones, cracked ones, ones with the tubes broke out, etc....Never even had reason to check one. Never heard of it being checked in such a way.... Setting it on a flat surface and having it rock only proves the cover surface is not true. It does not have to mean the housing is sprung. The important issue is if the carrier bearings are in line with each other.
I have used case spreaders to get thight carriers out....It is VERY difficult to spread a 60 center much more than a small fraction of an inch.
I NOT calling anyone a liar, I guess it is possible to bend one, just seems odd to me.
I am also wondering why, if the tubes were already cut too short to properly sleeve it, why not just re-tube it? (machine out the plug welds and install all new tube.) this is how Tera/Dyna/etc do it. In fact I watched Chad build B's axles that way at Tera. We also did some this way way back when at AFWDS.
IF a housing has a slight bend to it, it can an is corrected if it is put together with a line up bar through pucks in the bearing lands. There is NO way it can be wrong if done with a bar, welded with the bar in place and allowed to cool. The bar holds everything in line. It could even look completely bent out of wack on the out side, but as long as all the bearing lands are in line, it will work fine.(asuming it is not soooo bent that the shafts contact the tubes.)
I learned a long time ago to not trust how it looks until you stick a bar through it and check.

Another thing I do not understand is how welding a tube to the little tube left in the housing could bend a center section. I do not see how that is possible. Both tubes are indepent and exert no force on the center. However if a brace is welded tube to tube, it could bend it easily.

The line bore will fix the cap issue and allow for a line up bar to be used effectively. From What I read here, I see no reason why the housing can not be used. Even if the housing is now sprung....before or after OLM, the line bore will assure the carrier bearings are lined up. From there out it is easy to keep everything lined up.

So I guess my confusion is niether Elements or Parks statements make complete sense to me. Niether of them fit with the experiences I have had.
BUT, I learn something new everyday.
I am not trying to dis either of you, I just don't get it.

Forgot to add, you do not need a lathe to make build a housing properly, it is just one one to do it. I trust a line up bar much more than a press fit. Circle trackers have been building them that way for MANY years.

Marc

 

[Greg]

Bill,

The "Issues, Problems and Feedback" forum is for problems with the RME software, not other peoples issues that you jumped into. Please post in the correct forums.

 

[Parker]

2.Elements says the bending came after the tubes were replaced.

I appreciate your post actually Marc... I also appreciate that you are putting your past feelings aside as you know this has nothing to do with Matt, it's me and the customer. Just wanted to add a few things.

Zac swore up and down that the housing was straight and that the tube was put in crooked. He claimed four shops verified it. Now that he knows the housing is sprung, he's saying that the housing was bent when we welded it in... his story is changing... again.

I'm trying to make this right for the customer the best I know how. He won't listen to me because he's got a new formed grudge against the owner of the shop I happen to represent due to a former employee and his problems with the owner.

The housing is sprung... Tera agrees, I spent way too much time on the lathe and mill to come to that conclusion... in regards to you never seeing a housing that has bent, well I've talked to an axle guy who you know all to well that can agree he's seen plenty.

 

[Milner]

The housing is sprung... Tera agrees, I spent way too much time on the lathe and mill to come to that conclusion... in regards to you never seeing a housing that has bent, well I've talked to an axle guy who you know all to well that can agree he's seen plenty.

Thats cool, It is possible. I have seen many bent centers, just not 60's.
I have not seen this axle and don't know Elements. Like I said I do trust Parks opinion. Just trying to understand....

 

[jeepelements]

I never said

I never said that the worping came after the tubes were put in I'm saying that the tube isn't straight to the houseing. Parker did I not say when I brought this back to you that night that you need a line up bar to keep it straight (I can hear you you just said yes) so moveing on. Marc Milner finally someone sees it the right way this is what I have been trying to say and the only person backing be is Bill. Yes the bearing clamps are wrong that is the way I gave it to Parker I'm going to have them line bored and then they will be true to the axle
PARKER learn to read i never said you bent or worped or sprung what ever the hell you want to call it. When your guys welded the axle the heat PULLED THE TUBE OUT OF ALLINEMENT. Nothing to do with the houseing my story has not changed.
TERA doesn't agree that the axle is sprung I talked to them today and they said the bearing caps are wrong you will never get they to work the caps are machined from Dana with the caps on so the original caps are the only ones that will fit right.
I call SIX STATE and they gave me a number to call to get the caps machined called line bored to fit the houseing perfectly understand PARKER your still 2 steps behind me its no hard.
MATT has nothing to do with this????????????
Is OLM not owned by MATT iF i was him i would be doing some homework and i would have looked at the axle and said we screwed up let us fix it (THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT) you should know this PARKER come on you are a bussiness man.
SO AGAIN I NEVER SAID YOU WORPED THE HOUSEING BY WELDIING IT. Do you want me to demonstrate how heat pulls metal when you are welding it not the houseing the tube and the sleeve DO YOU UNDERSTAND OR DO YOU WANT ME TO PUT IT IN A NURSERY RHYME FOR YOU.

 

[mbryson]

I never said that the worping came after the tubes were put in I'm saying that the tube isn't straight to the houseing. Parker did I not say when I brought this back to you that night that you need a line up bar to keep it straight (I can hear you you just said yes) so moveing on. Marc Milner finally someone sees it the right way this is what I have been trying to say and the only person backing be is Bill. Yes the bearing clamps are wrong that is the way I gave it to Parker I'm going to have them line bored and then they will be true to the axle
PARKER learn to read i never said you bent or worped or sprung what ever the hell you want to call it. When your guys welded the axle the heat PULLED THE TUBE OUT OF ALLINEMENT. Nothing to do with the houseing my story has not changed.
TERA doesn't agree that the axle is sprung I talked to them today and they said the bearing caps are wrong you will never get they to work the caps are machined from Dana with the caps on so the original caps are the only ones that will fit right.
I call SIX STATE and they gave me a number to call to get the caps machined called line bored to fit the houseing perfectly understand PARKER your still 2 steps behind me its no hard.
MATT has nothing to do with this????????????
Is OLM not owned by MATT iF i was him i would be doing some homework and i would have looked at the axle and said we screwed up let us fix it (THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT) you should know this PARKER come on you are a bussiness man.
SO AGAIN I NEVER SAID YOU WORPED THE HOUSEING BY WELDIING IT. Do you want me to demonstrate how heat pulls metal when you are welding it not the houseing the tube and the sleeve DO YOU UNDERSTAND OR DO YOU WANT ME TO PUT IT IN A NURSERY RHYME FOR YOU.

Your tact is AMAZING!!!!!

..... 1 inch is not enough to hold the axle straight when you weld the tube the heat as all of us that weld know the heat will pull the material. .......

I'm kind of putting words in your mouth (again), but isn't the above describing warping (or WORPED, as you put in the below post)?

SO AGAIN I NEVER SAID YOU WORPED THE HOUSEING BY WELDIING IT. Do you want me to demonstrate how heat pulls metal when you are welding it not the houseing the tube and the sleeve DO YOU UNDERSTAND OR DO YOU WANT ME TO PUT IT IN A NURSERY RHYME FOR YOU.

So now I'm confused about what you did and didn't say......

 

[jeepelements]

houseing worped by Parker no

Were have i ever said that they worped the houseing i have never even said the houseing is worped or sprung it is perfectly fine i'm going to use it it goes to get line bored this week and then Tera will take out the old tubes and press in new tubes they will use a line up bar then put the knuckles on and then the axle shafts

 

[BlackSheep]

oh the drama. I think you guys (parker and jeepelements) need to talk this out in person. Over the phone at least. Far as I'm concerned, Parker has said that he will make it right, so you two guys need to work it out.

 

[Greg]

oh the drama. I think you guys (parker and jeepelements) need to talk this out in person. Over the phone at least. Far as I'm concerned, Parker has said that he will make it right, so you two guys need to work it out.

Agreed... this is nothing short of ridiculous. Posting up on the forums has done nothing to resolve the problem, just created drama.

 

[mbryson]

Is there a 'Days of Our Lives' theme song around .........


........Like sands through the hourglass......

 

[jeepelements]

i'm not calling parker

I'm not going to call Parker they screwed up on there welding and i'm not going to give them the time of day to fix this they can't punch the old tubes out and i want the axle done right that is why i went to TERA because they know what they are doing