front suspension question
- Thread starter FatTony
- Start date
Milner
formerly "rckcrlr"
- Location
- Hiding behind a camera
Need a little more info....way too many variables....It locks like an XJ with some Skyjacker and custom parts....I see some potential problems, but....
What coils? What is the track bar like? is there binding anywhere in the links? The angles look prett steep, how tall is it?
What coils? What is the track bar like? is there binding anywhere in the links? The angles look prett steep, how tall is it?
tagaustatoppen
1997 TJ
- Location
- Heber, Utah
I dont know about the "link job" but I would get ride of that D30... the axles will not hold the bigger tires.
I'm not positive as it is hard to tell, but I think it's a D44 under there. The webbing on the diff kinda gives it away.
Milner
formerly "rckcrlr"
- Location
- Hiding behind a camera
First if the trac bar is that steep, it is binding/fighting the 4 links....As the axle travels the trac bar moves the axle from side to side, the steeper the angle the more it moves....causing bind on the joints in the arm and fightin the against the tendency of the arms to keep the axle centered....
Build some brackets to flatten out the trac bar and (like Zog said) check the shock length. Then see what happens. (NOTE: that tie rod angle is way too steep to and likely maxxing the the tie rod end. Check into some highsteer options!)
Brett
Meat-Hippy
- Location
- Salt Lake City Utah
Not sure on your flex problem, but it looks like your driver side ball joints are about to seperate......
gripguru
Nate Davidson
- Location
- Meridian ID
Your suspension geometry is a nightmare.
If you have the upper and lower arms in the same plane vertically (notice the upper is mounted to the axle directly above the lower) then you need to run a flat trac bar. Right now the trac bar is triangulated against the pass side flexing.
I would recommend you cut the mounts off the jeep and build longer lowers. Build a crossmember for the mounting point for the lowers and have the upper arms come out off the lowers like Rubicon Express
or the clayton long arm kits.
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You should triangulate the mount for the uppers at the axle end so that it places the axle well and improves the forces fighting the trac bar. You will still need to run a trac bar, but the triangulated arms do a damn fine job of placing the axle through the entire range of motion. Speaking of range of motion, you will need limiting straps and bumpstops once you get the geometry improved. If this is hurting your head, call one of the vendors on here and get a kit to long arm your jeep. Then the geometry will be already determined and you can just figure out how to get it on your jeep and the axle.
If you have the upper and lower arms in the same plane vertically (notice the upper is mounted to the axle directly above the lower) then you need to run a flat trac bar. Right now the trac bar is triangulated against the pass side flexing.
I would recommend you cut the mounts off the jeep and build longer lowers. Build a crossmember for the mounting point for the lowers and have the upper arms come out off the lowers like Rubicon Express
or the clayton long arm kits.
You should triangulate the mount for the uppers at the axle end so that it places the axle well and improves the forces fighting the trac bar. You will still need to run a trac bar, but the triangulated arms do a damn fine job of placing the axle through the entire range of motion. Speaking of range of motion, you will need limiting straps and bumpstops once you get the geometry improved. If this is hurting your head, call one of the vendors on here and get a kit to long arm your jeep. Then the geometry will be already determined and you can just figure out how to get it on your jeep and the axle.
yellowbronco
Cuts Through Grease !!!
- Location
- Moab
Since everyone is giving actual advice (which is soooo boring btw) I'm going to go ahead and give the Voodoo solution to your problem. yes I know, you are welcome in advance.
Swing a dead chicken around your head 4 times. Then on the fourth swing, RELEASE THE CHICKEN, :freak: HURLING IT AT HIGH RATES OF SPEED TOWARD THE OFFENDING ARTICLE!!! (which, in this case would be your suspension) Then it should flex like mad.
Swing a dead chicken around your head 4 times. Then on the fourth swing, RELEASE THE CHICKEN, :freak: HURLING IT AT HIGH RATES OF SPEED TOWARD THE OFFENDING ARTICLE!!! (which, in this case would be your suspension) Then it should flex like mad.
Is the front axle not moving well under front end compression/extension, or articulation? I'm sorta assuming articulation--if it's just not moving, then your springs/shocks are not correct for your application.
For articulation--you have essentially hard mounts at all your suspension ends--heim joints or stiff poly bushings. For the sake of argument, let's call them all "solid" like a heim. Your shorter uppers and longer lowers will want to rotate the axle housing when it moves--axle droops, pinion dives. Axle compresses, pinion rises. Now move one side up and the other down, and one side will try to rotate one way, the other side will try to rotate the other way. It's trying to twist your axle housing, and most likely it's not succeeding--so you end up with binding and very little articulation. Radius arms do exactly the same thing, but in the opposite direction.
You have a few options here, depending on how much work you want to do. The easiest/quickest way would be to just remove one of your 4 control arms, most likely one of the uppers, and see how it does. That'll remove the binding and let it move freely, assuming you aren't maxing out your steering joints like someone already mentioned.
You can also replace some of your "hard points" with soft rubber bushings, so even though you have the binding you have something to absorb it and allow the axle to move. That's what most radius arm setups use to allow them to work--they rely on the deflection of the bushings.
You could completely redo stuff and triangulate the 4-link, get rid of the trackbar--but that'll require a major steering re-do to get that to work acceptably with that style suspension.
Yo?
For articulation--you have essentially hard mounts at all your suspension ends--heim joints or stiff poly bushings. For the sake of argument, let's call them all "solid" like a heim. Your shorter uppers and longer lowers will want to rotate the axle housing when it moves--axle droops, pinion dives. Axle compresses, pinion rises. Now move one side up and the other down, and one side will try to rotate one way, the other side will try to rotate the other way. It's trying to twist your axle housing, and most likely it's not succeeding--so you end up with binding and very little articulation. Radius arms do exactly the same thing, but in the opposite direction.
You have a few options here, depending on how much work you want to do. The easiest/quickest way would be to just remove one of your 4 control arms, most likely one of the uppers, and see how it does. That'll remove the binding and let it move freely, assuming you aren't maxing out your steering joints like someone already mentioned.
You can also replace some of your "hard points" with soft rubber bushings, so even though you have the binding you have something to absorb it and allow the axle to move. That's what most radius arm setups use to allow them to work--they rely on the deflection of the bushings.
You could completely redo stuff and triangulate the 4-link, get rid of the trackbar--but that'll require a major steering re-do to get that to work acceptably with that style suspension.
Yo?
Milner
formerly "rckcrlr"
- Location
- Hiding behind a camera
NO!! Yo must retain at least one upper to control the rotational forces on the axle....Set ups like Claytons are a radius are. There are only 2 main "links" but they attatch at the vertically seperated points in order to control rotational forces.
I hate to say it frankly, please don't be offended, but from the pics you have posted there are many problems with you current set up. You would be money and time ahead to use a proven kit like Claytons, tnt customs, RE, Tera etc. Suspension is not something you want to mess with if you don't fully understand the forces at play....You could end up with something VERY dangerous.