Gun Enthusiasts - Please Act Now!!!
- Thread starter chadr
- Start date
chadr
Active Member
- Location
- Hurricane, Utah
It's Official!!!
http://www.nraila.org/legislation/read.aspx?id=4680
http://www.nraila.org/legislation/read.aspx?id=4680
Brett
Meat-Hippy
- Location
- Salt Lake City Utah
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
I guess private property is no longer private. That's lame.
Your own vehicle is your private property, isn't it? As far as a company's parking lot goes, the new law would not apply as long as the lot is not accessible by the general public.
As far as newbie gun handlers go, are you really afraid of that? We've had that "problem" as long as we have had a second amendment. Shooting a firearm is not rocket science. My son has been doing it since he was four years old. Each new firearm sold in this country comes with plenty of literature about the safe handling of the product. My wife had never even held a gun until a year ago. She is 5'2" and has been quite capable since the first shot, and her CFP should be here any day now.
The term "Point and shoot" came from somewhere, right?
Our Concealed-carry course in the state of Utah is well known as one of the most strict in the country. It is honored in 37 other states because of how strict the process is.
The state of Idaho requires only a letter from the applicant to get a concealed license. Utah does not honor Idaho's permit because it is not strict enough.
There are many people who take Utah's concealed firearm permit class and never apply for the permit, I would guess at least 2/3 of every class never apply. You can be crazy as a loon, fresh out on parole, or an illegal alien and still take the class. You still have to pass the background check to get the permit.
Why would any criminal even bother with the class, or these new laws? They are gonna carry where they want regardless of what the public or their elected officials squawk about.
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
How about loaded and on the dashboard? That has always been legal in Utah.Supergper said:
D94R
Member
- Location
- Eagle Mountain
Read it how you will, there was no lack of rationality in mine.
That's it?Super said:
Hickey "gets it", good on ya!
Keep dreaming...atleast not since 1990
check-out Utah Law pretty clearly states it's illegal to have a loaded firearm in any vehicle.
Yes, the Uniform Law states you are allowed to transport a weapon in your vehicle, but not a loaded weapon.
Brett
Meat-Hippy
- Location
- Salt Lake City Utah
I read it as I felt needed.
I have to disagree with that, as a live fire test isn't even needed. Can you tell me that 100% of the people given a CCW permit are completely competent in the operation of a firearm?
Thin, at best. As people have said, comparing making a post on an internet forum to being able to CCW is a bit different. You make a mistake online or screw up, no biggy. You screw up with your firearm (IE, shot the toilet at a resteraunt
) there's a bit more of a consequence. To me, that's showing that someone should have taken more classes, anything, to PROVE before he was given his CCW that he could carry responsibly. Anyway, given that this law allows people to carry weapons in their cars for "protection" (what exactly are you going to need protection from, honestly?) I just think that it's a bad idea. You disagree with me, and that's fine.
Brett
Meat-Hippy
- Location
- Salt Lake City Utah
Yes, my vehicle is my own property. Is that land that I park on at work mine? No, it's not and I respect the rights of my employer to make their own rules. If they say, "No weapons" then that's fine. It's not the State's job to define rules for private companies.
Just passing a background check means that you're completely sane and okay to carry a firearm? Uh huh. There's some dumb mofo's here that have clean records, but there's not a chance in hell that I would trust them with a weapon sitting next to me.
Here's what most of you are missing: If a person is going to use a weapon illegally, they are not going to take any of the laws or new changes to the laws into consideration. So it is a pointless and irrational argument.
These new laws that pass benefit those of us who follow the laws of firearms and practice our rights to bear them.
I stand by the idea that an armed civilian is a criminal's worst nightmare.
These new laws that pass benefit those of us who follow the laws of firearms and practice our rights to bear them.
I stand by the idea that an armed civilian is a criminal's worst nightmare.
How many times in your life has this been a problem so far?
Brett
Meat-Hippy
- Location
- Salt Lake City Utah
13
D94R
Member
- Location
- Eagle Mountain
Nothing is absolute. Asking such to excercise a Right is beyond reasonability.
AGAIN, the point of my example was to look deeper at the issue. Apply this style of requirement to all the Rights and see how your opinions are. It wasn't a comparison saying that ill written words would kill someone, it was to put the same restrictions and hoops and permits on another Right and then see how you'd feel about that.Thin, at best. As people have said, comparing making a post on an internet forum to being able to CCW is a bit different. You make a mistake online or screw up, no biggy. You screw up with your firearm (IE, shot the toilet at a resteraunt
See, that "prove" ideology is where the problem exist. Our Rights are pre-existing Rights that are ours. They are not "given" to us, they are not "permitted" to us, they are not a "need". They are there, bestowed upon us, and are designed to be unquestionable.
Do you know the exact place and time crime is going to happen? If so, then you have the impossible ability to know where to stay away from and when. I don't. I carry in the unfortunate event I'm jumped, held up, I'm car jacked sitting at a light, someone trys to break into my house (day or night doesnt matter, criminals aren't the brightest), I'm attacked etc etc.
If you feel crime can never happen to you, then that's ok. Odds are, it probably won't. But my Right to choose to be armed should not be limited because someone else thinks it won't ever happen to them.
In the eyes of the Law, yes it does. Your personal opinion and fear does not trump the law, or ones Rights.
Besides, if you're worried that much about the guy you don't trust carrying, ask yourself this, how do you know he isn't already carrying concealed illegally? If he's of criminal mind, then enacting more laws and restrictions to keep people like him from carrying are only going to serve to limit the access of the law abiding. If he be a criminal, then he will continue to carry illegally anyhow; defining criminal.
The Bill of Rights isn't a smorgasborg of Rights. It's not pick and choose a-la cart. It's all or none. It wasn't designed to be picked apart Right by Right and to have limitations and restrictions set upon anyone of them. They were written to be final and non objectionable.
So think about this. This isn't about guns being dangerous, this is about restricting our Rights, or rather infringing upon the most important Right we all have should the **** hit the fan with the .gov.
Digest this if you will:
You now have to have 1000hrs of schooling and writing classes before you can now publish and write anything in a true public forum (no not the internet kind of forum) - Your 1st Amendment Right has now been largely infringed upon.
The police are now able to come and search your house, car, documents, bank accounts etc etc because they heard word of mouth you might be doing some illegal activity. Your 4th Amendment Right has now been largely infringed upon.
You must now have X amount of Law School under your belt and show a complete understanding of the Judicial system before you qualify for a Trial; civil or by jury of your peers. Your 6th, 7th and 8th Amendment Right has now been largely infringed upon.
These are all extremes, but they would be infringements on our Rights, and how would you feel if this were to actually happen? Just like the rediculous laws and restrictions written based on peoples fears and lack of logical control. All of which intrude on the only Right we have that explicitly states it shall not be infringed.
Agreed, but making it legal for Joe Schmoe to conceal a weapon without any permits is the point. Concealing a weapon is much different then "the right to bear arms". The right to bear arms has NEVER been in question or compromised. You've always been able to open carry where it's legal.
Yes and no. Now anyone can conceal...who's to say those that are choosing to conceal are the ones that follow the laws of firearms? So now when some gangbanger gets arrested and has a weapon on him (concealed), that's no longer going to be a chargeable offense.
I too agree that a LEGALLY armed citizen is a criminal's worst nightmare. But that same person could be ANYONE'S worst nightmare too. Now making it legal to conceal that weapon just seems sketchy at best to me.
I've had a gun pulled on me and maybe this is where I am coming from??? I just don't see how anyone could think this is a good idea.
Sorry, this is the most idiotic thing that has been said in this entire thread. So because he's going to do it anyways (even if it is illegal), we may as well just give in and make it legal. Right, that's what you are saying? So, same thing can be said about ANY law. The murderers are going to keep killing even though it's illegal, the drug dealers are going to keep dealing even though it's illegal, etc. That's a pathetic excuse if I've ever heard one.
Right, but I still think a car is one of the most dangerous places to have a weapon, and to allow you to conceal it there makes it that much more dangerous. Anyone that says they haven't been involved in some kind of road rage is either in lala land or is lying. How many of those situations will have much different outcomes now? I don't personally want to find out. I've never felt the need to have to conceal a weapon in my car or my house (or my camp), I just see this as a useless law. There are much more important things they should be debating and working on (land rights, education, etc).
I just noticed the banner at the bottom of the thread is for Front Sight Oh, and I may be going down to Front Sight in the next couple months
chadr
Active Member
- Location
- Hurricane, Utah
Now anyone can conceal...who's to say those that are choosing to conceal are the ones that follow the laws of firearms? So now when some gangbanger gets arrested and has a weapon on him (concealed), that's no longer going to be a chargeable offense.
I too agree that a LEGALLY armed citizen is a criminal's worst nightmare. But that same person could be ANYONE'S worst nightmare too. Now making it legal to conceal that weapon just seems sketchy at best to me.
I've had a gun pulled on me and maybe this is where I am coming from??? I just don't see how anyone could think this is a good idea.
These laws do not give anyone the right to carry a concealed weapon on their person. These laws are stating that you have the right to carry a loaded weapon in your vehicle or in your house. The CCW permit is the only thing that says that someone is permitted to carry the weapon on the body.
I took the CCW course and one of the things that they stated is that "OPEN CARRY" is not legal. "CONCEALED CARRY" is "LEGAL" if you have the permit.
If you are carrying a weapon, it must be concealed to where it will not raise a scene. Also, I emphasize that if you are carrying a weapon and do not have a permit to do so, you are doing it illegally and if caught, you will be prosecuted. So, the gangbanger that you mentioned could carry a weapon if he had the background check and passed, but hopefully the system has screened him before he is able to do so.
Hmm...my class said open carry is legal except private property, etc.
Yet another reason why CCW classes are a total joke.