healthcare vote

[TonyM]

Dude no big deal but I was a few credits shy of a second degree in political science if it helps... There is no constitutional right guaranteeing happiness. I agree with a lot of the premise of the arguement here. Obviously 2nd amendment (the second F'ing amendment, the thing they chose to write after free speech and from of and from religion) is totally watered down and that sucks balls... All I'm saying is the arguments on this one are a little off because people haven't read or looked at the actual issues at state here, that's all I'm saying... The problem is we are so deep in the hole on this, basically this piece of legistation should have gone through in the 90's and we would be in such better shape. But basically Klinton got a BJ from a fat slut and it it killed it. Seriously.. :greg:

To the first point highlighted. I agree %100 there is no right to happiness. What I find a bit concerning, considering your proclaimed almost political science degree, is that you would use that phrase. Let me fix it for you. It's the Right to the Pursuit of Happiness, not the Right to happiness. What that means, is that you have a chance to pursue happiness, not a right to have it. In turn, meaning you have the right to fail at that pursuit.

To the second highlighted point. The reason (Although funny and entertaining regarding our first "Real black Pres"), healthcare in this light has never passed, is because the majority of Americans did't want it (And don't want it now).

What makes this climate susceptible to it, is the "Perfect storm" if you will, that took place in 2008. Progressives found themselves in a super majority in both houses of congress... and a SUPER left wing pres, this legislation, and more, was sure to pass (Ironically, it BARELY passed, and under shady circumstances at best).

It will be undone (along with many other things), one way or "The other", I assure you of that.

 

[dieslcruisrhead]

Again contrary to popular belief Obama is not super left wing, it's just the shit you've been sniffing. He hasn't pushed or approached gun control, abortion, or anything of the sort. The wars are still happening (in fact we're doing better in Afghanistan than anytime in the last 10 years), and the country looks like we're doing better economically than any time since the recession hit and he is out to balance the budget just like the last democrat who is in office as well (hehem, 70% of the deficit comes under Republican leadership, and most of that when we weren't at war.)..

The congress is a little out of control, Pelosi completely utterly sucks but just like I can't choose what they wrote into the school books in Texas this week I can't choose who the idiots in San Francisco elect either and you gotta run with what cards you've been handed and actually assign blame where blame is due...

 

[dieslcruisrhead]

Find a single spot in the federal Constitution that proclaims a right to the pursuit of happiness. The declaration of independence was a document they sent to the king of England announcing... Our nation's intent to seek independence. They they went to war for 10 years before the country was even remotely close to being founded...

Every hotly contested landmark legislation has gone down like this, for the record. Yes it was super shady. I honestly think of the politicial environment hadn't wrapped itself up the way it was (people on the left and right being more honorable, less totally f-ing windbag-ish and totally ridiculously partisan on both sides) then we would have seen this play down a lot differently. We could have had a credible debate and possibly even made some real bipartisan changes. For the record, the real 'left' aspects of the bill, single payer option, were all removed and a lot of this at the advice and recommendation of Republicans (seriously).

The solution to this is to actually tone this down rather than ramp it up. The country is really being screwed hard by this right now in my opinion and again no party is above it.

To the first point highlighted. I agree %100 there is no right to happiness. What I find a bit disturbing, considering your self proclaimed almost political science degree, is that you would use that phrase. Let me fix it for you. It's the Right to the Pursuit of Happiness, not the Right to happiness. What that means, is that you have a chance to pursue happiness, not a right to have it. In turn, meaning you have the right to fail at that pursuit.

To the second highlighted point. The reason (Although funny and entertaining regarding our first "Real black Pres"), healthcare in this light has never passed, is because the majority of Americans did't want it (And don't want it now).

What makes this climate susceptible to it, is the "Perfect storm" if you will, that took place in 2008. Progressives found themselves in a super majority in both houses of congress... and a SUPER left wing pres, this legislation, and more, was sure to pass (Ironically, it BARELY passed, and under shady circumstances at best).

It will be undone (along with many other things), one way or "The other", I assure you of that.

 

[TonyM]

Again contrary to popular belief Obama is not super left wing, it's just the shit you've been sniffing. He hasn't pushed or approached gun control, abortion, or anything of the sort. The wars are still happening (in fact we're doing better in Afghanistan than anytime in the last 10 years), and the country looks like we're doing better economically than any time since the recession hit and he is out to balance the budget just like the last democrat who is in office as well (hehem, 70% of the deficit comes under Republican leadership, and most of that when we weren't at war.)..

The congress is a little out of control, Pelosi completely utterly sucks but just like I can't choose what they wrote into the school books in Texas this week I can't choose who the idiots in San Francisco elect either and you gotta run with what cards you've been handed and assign blame where blame is due...

I assure you I am not sniffing anything. There is plenty of blame to go around as for what our current fiscal situation is in... as I pointed out in an earlier post. GOP and Dems are to blame for the last 10 years of economic mayhem. However, it does not have any bearing on the issues at hand being discussed.

The title of the this thread clearly says Healthcare Vote. I am debating the legality and constitutionality of that premise. Again, the bottom line is, without bringing other tangent type topics into the discussion, there are fundamental wrong doings taking place, regarding healthcare, and our government at large, that are taking place. GOP or Dem, changes are coming, one way or another.. hopefully is the way that does not require "Replenishing the tree".

 

[Ogre Palowakski]

When a corporation is out to make a profit but the laws state they can violate some basic common sense and respect for their customers then something needs to be changed. The laws and the rights of a health insurance customer do not go hand in hand.. In fact it is 100% opposite - if a health care company takes in insurance premiums but does not pay out then they make pure profit. You guys need to go see the Matt Damon movie The Rainmaker when you get a chance. There are some companies that have denied claims on the first round as much as 80% of the time, no exaggeration. My father in law passed away in November from an accident while hiking in southern Utah. The insurance company (though he had the best possible insurance possible from Delta Airlines) actually had the audacity to deny his coverage for the lifeflight for some stupid stipulation. My mother in law actually started receiving bills for $12,000, $14,000 from insurance denials. After resubmitting it three times they finalyl approved it. Honestly what changed between the first and third time it was submitted? Not a damn thing. She honestly thinks they tried to take advantage of a widow who happened to have the money to be able to afford it.

I totally agree with this. Insurance companies are pure, unadultrated evil. I am constantly swimming in medical bills - pretty much every one of them is denied at least 3 times before the a-holes approve it. No change whatsoever, just more effort on my part

 

[jackjoh]

The Declaration of Independence states, "unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness". If it was good enough reason to form the United States it should be valid now.
For those that want to know more I recommend the following:
Skousen, W. Cleon (2009-03-19). James Michael Pratt and Carlos L Packard. ed. The Five Thousand Year Leap with Foreword by Glenn Beck. Franklin, Tennessee: American Documents Publishing, LLC. pp. 356. ISBN 0981559662.
The Making of America: The Substance and Meaning of the Constitution (2nd ed.). Malta, Idaho: National Center for Constitutional Studies. 1985. pp. 888. ISBN 0880800178.

 

[Tacoma]

Foreword by Glenn Beck? Andre will never read it now! heh.

I think maybe eveyrone ought to, instead, go over the actual Constitution and take careful and reflective note of when things like "income tax" came on the books, and when it was amended to give the Feds more power than originally intended.

Logic holds that spending money cannot save it. So just tell the truth about the motive and say "We want socialized medicine for these reasons:" and then tell us. The opposing party is free to elaborate on the reasons they want something else. But let's call a rose a rose here and quit dressing it up as something else.
It was a cowardly way to do an end run around the will of the American people, and REEKS of the kind of arrogant egalitarianism I've sadly come to expect from The Left. And sadly, the same apocalyptic opposition from The Right.

I found little to be pleased with in today's media commentary.

 

[ID Bronco]

Tacoma,

The forward by glenn beck was a recent addition, the book is very old and an awesome read! The understanding of Natural Law is very important.

 

[spaggyroe]

If anyone wants to blow up ABC 4's poll, go here and take the poll located on the right side of the page.

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/na...overhaul-into-law/cc0_vqU5VUu-Z1LH2-pDuA.cspx


Edit - the link above no longer takes you to ABC 4's poll, so please disregard it.

 

[Tacoma]

I wonder how many of the yes votes didn't read the question.

 

[jackjoh]

When the income tax was first introduced the people were told it would never go over 2 percent. The roman empire collapsed when taxes reached 5 percent. We have too many government employees.

 

[GOAT]

so how many of you who are so vehemently opposed to recent or past "injustices" carried out by our "leaders" did anything to stop, change, or influence it?


really?

 

[Bobzilla]

You Tube Pastor Manning

The night was dark the clouds were few over the trail the shit wagon flew, a cry rang out and a sound was heard Barry, Nancy & Harry were hit by a Big Flying turd.

The Healthcare bill sucks, Obama is not interested in whats best for the country USA as we knew it, he want's hard working American citizens down on their knees, & out of work, he is worthless.

He is the most predjudice SOB that has ever been elected El Presidente, figure it out. He loves to fan the flames of hate on the Tube, he's on almost every day smearing crap in the faces of the hard working citizens of the USA.

I did not vote the guy and I am dam glad I didn't, but it is real hard to find anyone that will admit that they voted for Mr Healthcare.

You want to get a real Black Persons opinion of Barry and his healthcare, go to you tube and watch look & listen to Pastor Manning, he has got Obama pegged, check it out.

Personally I am a US citizen born and raised, Barry doesn't act like any God Fearing USA born citizen I have ever seen, his POS healthcare bill is proof.

Unlike Barry, I say God Bless America & God Bless our Troops, may God protect our Soldiers

 

[jakesteads]

nobama

 

[Tacoma]

so how many of you who are so vehemently opposed to recent or past "injustices" carried out by our "leaders" did anything to stop, change, or influence it?


really?

You mean other than exercising our right to vote, and our duty to contact our elected officials through letters (electronic or otherwise)?

 

[GOAT]

You mean other than exercising our right to vote, and our duty to contact our elected officials through letters (electronic or otherwise)?

ah, so the bare minimum then......

 

[GOAT]

The night was dark the clouds were few over the trail the shit wagon flew, a cry rang out and a sound was heard Barry, Nancy & Harry were hit by a Big Flying turd.

The Healthcare bill sucks, Obama is not interested in whats best for the country USA as we knew it, he want's hard working American citizens down on their knees, & out of work, he is worthless.

He is the most predjudice SOB that has ever been elected El Presidente, figure it out. He loves to fan the flames of hate on the Tube, he's on almost every day smearing crap in the faces of the hard working citizens of the USA.

I did not vote the guy and I am dam glad I didn't, but it is real hard to find anyone that will admit that they voted for Mr Healthcare.

You want to get a real Black Persons opinion of Barry and his healthcare, go to you tube and watch look & listen to Pastor Manning, he has got Obama pegged, check it out.

Personally I am a US citizen born and raised, Barry doesn't act like any God Fearing USA born citizen I have ever seen, his POS healthcare bill is proof.

Unlike Barry, I say God Bless America & God Bless our Troops, may God protect our Soldiers

interesting. i found this on youtube as well.........

[YOUTUBE]/v/sIV-ulXCkv0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true">[/YOUTUBE]

 

[jackjoh]

ah, so the bare minimum then......

It would be fantastic if we could get the bare minimum out of everyone. That goes for RME and U4WDA members too. What is your suggestion for doing more other than shooting someone?

 

[Tacoma]

I'd be happy getting the bare minimum out of our elected officials, without having to spend my OWN time doing their job. They're supposed to be "representative" government. If I've got to go to meetings to remind them of that, write letters to remind them of that, fly to DC to protest to remind them of that, then they are failing to do their jobs.

/goatstylestir hehe

 

[jackjoh]

We are back to the term limits vote them out thing.