High pressure fuel pumps

[timpanogos]

My 5.3L vortec fuel system is eating fuel pumps. The system was setup as follows:

Fuel cell (in tub) -> 95 psi frame mounted pump -> filter -> engine.

I lost a fuel pump a month or so ago, and lost the new one last weekend after about 16 hours of run time on the new pump. The pumps appeared to be identical (E2000) although the two I’ve purchased so far were from two different vendors (latter one from Carter)

I tie wrapped it in (frame mount location very tight), but hope the problem was actually from dirty gas taking out the pumps.

Fuel cell -> filter -> pump -> engine.

The fuel cell is just not that old and should not have any nasty stuff in it. Is it possible that gas is dirty enough to kill a pump?

What are other possible causes of taking out the pump so quickly?

I need to move the pump/filter as the pump is now dangerously close to my coil springs. Does it matter if the pump inlet is slightly higher than the drain from the cell?

 

[Kiel]

If I remember right I think the es2000 is a pusher pump right? So the farther away from the tank it is the harder it is on the pump. How far away is yours? Maybe a small lift pump like on the diesels would help. But I would clean the crap out first and go from there

 

[ROCKRUNNER]

We have always set it up Tank-Filter-Pump-Engine. To date I haven't had the E2000 Pump Fail. With that being said I would only assume that could be part of the problem, and the gas or crap in the tank is clogging your pump. We use a Ford Taures Filter wich is way cheap to replace. I hope that helps!

 

[timpanogos]

If I remember right I think the es2000 is a pusher pump right? So the farther away from the tank it is the harder it is on the pump. How far away is yours? Maybe a small lift pump like on the diesels would help. But I would clean the crap out first and go from there

The pump is at the very rear of the jeep. There is no "crap" to clean out. The tank/system is just not that old.

Maybe a low pressure pre-pump is a good idea. I could locate the main pump in a better protected place, under the hood.

edit: if it is a pusher pump that answers one question, it would be bad to have the pump above the gravity feed of the tank ...

We have always set it up Tank-Filter-Pump-Engine. To date I haven't had the E2000 Pump Fail. With that being said I would only assume that could be part of the problem, and the gas or crap in the tank is clogging your pump. We use a Ford Taures Filter wich is way cheap to replace. I hope that helps!

yea, I just can not imagine this thing dieing that fast. I can only think that one of the following things is killing it:

1. heat (ambient was right at 100 degrees both times it failed)
2. vibration/shock
3. dirt

I'm just assuming that the tank is clean (as it's relatively new). I better yank the top and double check it.

 

[I Lean]

Is there fuel cell foam inside your tank? That can sometimes start breaking up and clog/kill things.

 

[timpanogos]

Is there fuel cell foam inside your tank? That can sometimes start breaking up and clog/kill things.

No foam in the cell.

It appears that AirTex builds the pump. Unfortunately their page with info on the pump does not have the pumps specification (has a tab for it, but reports not available).

I emailed them with some spec questions (max push dist, max pull dist, max height above tank output, etc.)

Hopefully they will write back with some info.

 

[kowe69]

My 5.3L vortec fuel system is eating fuel pumps. The system was setup as follows:

Fuel cell (in tub) -> 95 psi frame mounted pump -> filter -> engine.

I lost a fuel pump a month or so ago, and lost the new one last weekend after about 16 hours of run time on the new pump. The pumps appeared to be identical (E2000) although the two I’ve purchased so far were from two different vendors (latter one from Carter)

I tie wrapped it in (frame mount location very tight), but hope the problem was actually from dirty gas taking out the pumps.

Fuel cell -> filter -> pump -> engine.

The fuel cell is just not that old and should not have any nasty stuff in it. Is it possible that gas is dirty enough to kill a pump?

What are other possible causes of taking out the pump so quickly?

I need to move the pump/filter as the pump is now dangerously close to my coil springs. Does it matter if the pump inlet is slightly higher than the drain from the cell?

Fuel pumps do push better than they suck. That is one of many reasons manufacturers have started putting them in the tank (the other main reason is to keep them cool).

You can put the filter in front of the pump but it will only cause more restriction. I have the filter behind the pump on my 1 ton and it's been running strong for over a year. I had it in font of the pump in the beginning but it did starve the pump and caused it to whine.

It is also very important that the pump is lower than the bottom of the cell so that gravity will help feed the pump the fuel it's trying to pull and so that fuel is always present when the pump starts up.

Does your fuel system have a return line? Having a return line from the regulator back you the fuel cell will help the pump run cooler. Your problem may be excessive heat from the pump trying to force fuel into a single line when it has nowhere to go.

Those I my suggestions. I don't think your problem is contamination. it sounds like fuel starvation or heat. Or both.

Hope this helps.

 

[Meat_]

I think it's just the close proximity to your Iroks.

 

[timpanogos]

Does your fuel system have a return line? Having a return line from the regulator back you the fuel cell will help the pump run cooler. Your problem may be excessive heat from the pump trying to force fuel into a single line when it has nowhere to go.

No return line. I'm not sure where/what the regulator is. Will it have a fitting (currently plugged) that a return line can be added to?

I know when I unplugged the output side of the pump (to the filter), it was under a lot of pressure. It sprayed me good, and even holding my finger over the end, I could barely hold the pressure. This 15 minutes after the pump quit.

When the key is first turned on, the pump runs for about 5 seconds and then shuts off ... so I assume the computer is controlling this. What does the computer monitor to decide when to turn the pump on/off?


Chad

 

[dunatic67]

I assume the 5.3 uses fuel rails- one for each cylinder bank. If so the fuel comes in one rail, transfers to the other, and at the end of the second rail there should be a fitting (currently plugged). All the systems I have setup I run the fuel up one frame rail and return down the opposite side.
I would run a filter before the pump, and then install the return line, and go from there.

 

[I Lean]

Does the factory application have a return line? TJ's only have one line going to the fuel rail, and no return line--the regulator is built in with the in-tank pump.

If that's the case, you could probably find an external regulator with a return fitting to put in-line after the pump. That way the pump can circulate fuel through the regulator/return line to keep the pump happy, and the single line going to the motor to feed it whatever it needs.

 

[waynehartwig]

It is also very important that the pump is lower than the bottom of the cell so that gravity will help feed the pump the fuel it's trying to pull and so that fuel is always present when the pump starts up.

Does your fuel system have a return line? Having a return line from the regulator back you the fuel cell will help the pump run cooler. Your problem may be excessive heat from the pump trying to force fuel into a single line when it has nowhere to go.

This is what I was going to say, so X2...

But I'll add... The return line will not only help it run cooler, but it will also run quieter and keep the fuel cooler, too.

 

[richpblaze]

Just so you know the ES2000

Can be used internally or externally. I run mine inside the tank.

 

[ROCKRUNNER]

The 3 5.3 motors we have installed all had return lines. As others have stated above I believe That would be a huge help to keep things cooler and last longer. Summit racing does sale the regulator and you can opt for the return line as well.

 

[spaggyroe]

I have a 6.0 out of an 04.
It does not have a return line on the fuel rail. I know that earlier models did though.

If the fuel rail only has 1 connection (feed line) go get a fuel filter for a 99 corvette. It also acts as a pressure regulator. The filter has an inlet, a regulated outlet, and a return line which you can then run back to the tank. I think they cost about $55 If you need a part number, let me know. I have one in the garage.

 

[kowe69]

No return line. I'm not sure where/what the regulator is. Will it have a fitting (currently plugged) that a return line can be added to?


What does the computer monitor to decide when to turn the pump on/off?


Chad

I assume your using the stock computer and wiring it came with...depending on the model year it will have one of many types of systems.

I'm sorry, at the moment can not access some of my online resources to give you more specific info for your application.

One type is a sequential fuel injection or SFI system. This system will have fuel injectors and fuel rail external to the intake manifold. It is a "return" system where fuel is pumped through a pressure line up to the fuel rail and injectors where pressure is maintained at approx 65 psi by the fuel pressure regulator which would be at the opposite end on the fuel rail. (usually will have a vacuum line going to it? Excess fuel is then bled off and returned to the tank. If your engine originally had this...it still needs one.

Some Vortec engines (like mine 1996-1999), have a central sequential fuel injection or CSFI system. This is also a return system. Here fuel is supplied to a pack of injectors that are located inside the center of the intake manifold. The regulator is also in the pack and is not accessible. There would be two hard steel fuel lines, one in, one out of the injector pack.

Another type...(I'm not sure when and how Chevy might be using this) is a mechanical returnless system. Here the regulator and pump are one unit located in the tank. The excess fuel is bled off and dumped right back in the tank without ever leaving it. There is only one pressure line going from the pump to the engine.

Yet another type is the electronic returnless system. Here the PCM (computer) uses a fuel rail pressure sensor to monitor fuel pressure. The computer will provide a duty cycled voltage to the pump to control the pump speed and therefor control pressure. There is only one fuel line in the system as well.

Regardless of the system the engine had in it's former life...your pump needs a return line in the system in order to dissipate the heat it generates. If your fuel rail/injectors do not have a "plugged" return line or some kind of regulator you need to get one. Your ES2000 has no way of regulating pressure by it's self. In a closed fuel system it will always run at maximum pressure and overheat itself.

As for your second question: yes the computer is running the pump. When the key is turned on, it will run the pump to pressurize the fuel system so there is fuel available on start-up. Normally all pumps have a check valve in them so that pressure is maintained in the fuel line when the pump is off. Sometime the pressure will leak down at night either through the check valve, regulator or possibly a leaking injector. This is why the computer runs the pump with the key on and also when cranking the engine to help start up.

One other point...running a filter in front or behind the pump is mostly a matter of preference. Everyone is going to have a different opinion on this.
Yes, it is a good idea to filter the fuel going into the pump to protect it from contamination. But if you consider that most, if not all manufacturers are putting there pumps in the tank on late model vehicles, there is no filter in the tank. Just a small pick-up screen that will filter large particles. I believe most aftermarket frame mounted pumps have a screen in the intake port (mine does anyway). So i think the pump will perform better and last longer without a filter in front of it to restrict fuel supply to the pump and run it dry. Just my $0.02

wheeeww......breath....

 

[kowe69]

If the fuel rail only has 1 connection (feed line) go get a fuel filter for a 99 corvette. It also acts as a pressure regulator. The filter has an inlet, a regulated outlet, and a return line which you can then run back to the tank. I think they cost about $55 If you need a part number, let me know. I have one in the garage.

Ditto! This sounds like a good solution to me! Just make sure to find out what the regulated pressure is. You will need at least 65 psi. No less. By the way...with this filter you will need to mount it behind the pump in order for it to regulate properly.

 

[spaggyroe]

Ditto! This sounds like a good solution to me! Just make sure to find out what the regulated pressure is. You will need at least 65 psi. No less. By the way...with this filter you will need to mount it behind the pump in order for it to regulate properly.

You'll actually want to run it in front of the pump.
I.E. - Tank - Pump - Corvette filter / regulator (at which point you'll have 2 outputs, one regulated supply to the engine, one return to the tank). You need a regulated supply pressure of 58 psi. I'll be installing some sort of low restiction filter between the tank and pump as well but that's a moot point right now.

The filter / regulator is AC Delco - Gm part number 10299146
It has a female disconnect on the outlet, so you'll need a piece of beaded 3/8 hard line to make the connection. Napa part number 730-4931. The inlet has a 3/8 male beaded line (for quick connect fittings), and the return line is a 5/16 male beaded line. I wanted to use braided -6 line for my fuel so I got some russell fittings that are quick-disconnect to -6. The 3/8 fitting is Russell part number 640850. The 5/16 fitting for the return is part number 640860. The beaded hard line I mentioned earlier (from napa) needs a fitting as well if you want to run -6 line. Just cut the metal line and use Russell part number 639210 to adapt to -6.


There's some tech info on LS1tech.com that can help.


Thanks
Nate

 

[timpanogos]

great information. thanks everyone!!

 

[timpanogos]

Well, I'm a bit slow (shut up meat).

I took a closer look at my fuel system this weekend. I do indeed have a return line. I pulled it at the tank, ran the engine and indeed have fuel flowing back to it.

I also realized that all three lines (feed, roll-over vent, return) all come out of the top of the cell. Two of the lines (feed, roll-over vent) are tie wrapped in a loop that goes several inchs over the top of the tanks level before dropping down below the tub and connecting to solid tubing on the frame.

So, it finally occured to me, my feed to the pump input is via syphon.

The rci cell comes with a fuel gauge sensor (ground and hot feeds pass-thru connections available). I'm tempted to try and gut the float and try and secure the e2000 pump to the float assembly mounting. However I'm worried about being able to get it all setup via the one bigger hole, which is only going to allow for one hand/arm.

edit:

maybe attach one end of some plumbers tape to the sending unit and the other end to the pump (keeping the pump very close to the bottom of the tank, but not touching)

I wonder what rci used internally for the feed line (solid tube to bottom of the tank, or normal fuel line)

edit2:

Just talked to rci ... solid tube to bottom of tank ... explained problem and he suggested that it was starvation that kills external pumps more than anything else. As I thought about this, both times the pump failed I was at 1/4 tank or less, and just came out of big down hill holes. I'm wondering if my pump was sucking air (hells revenge) on the downhills and this is killing the pump.