Home building construction...

[Greg]

So I have this idea that I've been thinking about for a long time... I would LOVE to build a strawbale home on a handful of acres (5 to 40) outside of town. Build it to take advantage of passive solar heating for Winters, plus a heated (stained) concrete floor for even, radiating heat. The concrete floor would see the sun in the Winter, making it a huge heat sink... holding heat in the day and releasing it after the sun went down. The roof overhang would block the sun in the Summer. Triple pane windows would help retain heat & cool air. Open floor plan, flat mono-slope roof with tall ceilings, big South-facing windows, around 2,000 sq. feet with 3 to 4 bedrooms. Strawbale homes are super insulated, so the need for the normal heating & cooling requirements is reduced my a massive margin, saving money over time. Plus, the homes are very air tight & sound proof.

A well for water and solar power would be nice, but city water and grid power would be more affordable. The downside to strawbale is that it is VERY labor intensive, it HAS to be done right or can have devastating results (leaking walls = mold, rot, etc) so you need to bring in a 'expert' to do it right. Experts cost $$$$$.... plus the time involved in a strawbale build is pretty big, due to the massive labor needs.

As labor intensive as strawbale is and knowing how it must be done right, I looked into other options that would also create a very efficient home. A friend build a home with ICF's (Insulated Concrete Forms) and they're impressive... but costly. Another more affordable option is using SIP's (Structurally Insulated Panels), but it seems like you need a pre-made plan to build a home and have all the panels cut to fit that plan. At this point I'm not interested in strawbale, so the debate is SIP's vs. ICF's. Finished costs are a huge factor, so SIP's get the nod there.

Anyone have thoughts & possibly experience with something like this? I like our home we're in now, and especially the shop!! But I think we could rent this house out, make a few hundred a month and help pay for the new build. Most of this is just talk, bench-racing if you will... just looking for thoughts.

 

[rholbrook]

On KSL.COM today they had a story on s straw bale house. I bet you could get his number and call that guy

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=40451248&n...h-heating-bills-utahn-builds-straw-bale-house

usually people like this like to talk about it. I would ask him

 

[Skylinerider]

On KSL.COM today they had a story on s straw bale house. I bet you could get his number and call that guy

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=40451248&n...h-heating-bills-utahn-builds-straw-bale-house

usually people like this like to talk about it. I would ask him

That's my neighbor. His house is right through the block. Come on up Greg and I'm sure I can get you a tour.

 

[RogueJeepr]

It would suck if it caught fire.

 

[johngottfredson]

It would suck if it caught fire.

Actually, strawbale homes are extremely fire resistant, equivalent to what is required in emergency exit stairwells.

http://www.strawbale.com/straw-bale-fire-resistant-southern-california/

 

[johngottfredson]

So I have this idea that I've been thinking about for a long time... I would LOVE to build a strawbale home on a handful of acres (5 to 40) outside of town. Build it to take advantage of passive solar heating for Winters, plus a heated (stained) concrete floor for even, radiating heat. The concrete floor would see the sun in the Winter, making it a huge heat sink... holding heat in the day and releasing it after the sun went down. The roof overhang would block the sun in the Summer. Triple pane windows would help retain heat & cool air. Open floor plan, flat mono-slope roof with tall ceilings, big South-facing windows, around 2,000 sq. feet with 3 to 4 bedrooms. Strawbale homes are super insulated, so the need for the normal heating & cooling requirements is reduced my a massive margin, saving money over time. Plus, the homes are very air tight & sound proof.

A well for water and solar power would be nice, but city water and grid power would be more affordable. The downside to strawbale is that it is VERY labor intensive, it HAS to be done right or can have devastating results (leaking walls = mold, rot, etc) so you need to bring in a 'expert' to do it right. Experts cost $$$$$.... plus the time involved in a strawbale build is pretty big, due to the massive labor needs.

As labor intensive as strawbale is and knowing how it must be done right, I looked into other options that would also create a very efficient home. A friend build a home with ICF's (Insulated Concrete Forms) and they're impressive... but costly. Another more affordable option is using SIP's (Structurally Insulated Panels), but it seems like you need a pre-made plan to build a home and have all the panels cut to fit that plan. At this point I'm not interested in strawbale, so the debate is SIP's vs. ICF's. Finished costs are a huge factor, so SIP's get the nod there.

Anyone have thoughts & possibly experience with something like this? I like our home we're in now, and especially the shop!! But I think we could rent this house out, make a few hundred a month and help pay for the new build. Most of this is just talk, bench-racing if you will... just looking for thoughts.

Greg, this has been my exact line of thinking for a few years now. I have a few really good passive solar construction books from the '70s (energy crisis pushed a lot of these kinds of books onto the market), and strawbale is my material of choice. I stumbled on this blog where a husband and wife here in Utah built just this kind of house in Torrey where they currently reside. Kind of fun to see them as a couple working together to build their retirement home, and they do a good job sharing the good and the bad along the way: http://maryandscotthouseofstraw.blogspot.com/

 

[jeeper]

I don't particularly like the straw idea. However, I have never actually been in one, or been a part of one being built. If you do in fact build a straw house, I would enjoy visiting throughout the process. I have taken a few courses and lectures on 'green building', but no real world experience.
I personally would be very nervous about the longevity of straw bails. But I don't have data to say one way or the other...
-What about bugs? Bugs love straw. Will there be continual battles with bugs, or will it be similar to a typical house?
-Do the bugs feed on the straw, or help to break it down faster?

I have the belief that 'green' costs more. The up front is more, and the upkeep is more. You save during the interim, but is it enough to be cost effective?
My example is the prius. Sure, it doesn't cost fuel (although it does add $ to electric bill) but when it comes time to replace $5,000 worth of batteries, did you really save any money?
But I could be very wrong altogether.

SIP's are obviously very different than straw. How long can you expect an SIP house to last? are you going to get 100+ years like a stick built house? Can the panels be replaced individually if needed? like if a drunk smacks the corner of your house.. how does that get fixed?

We appraisers are bred to dislike change. We don't embrace new very well, especially what we don't understand... so I would be hesitant to try any of your options.. but I would enjoy following your process so that I can learn and embrace new

 

[Hickey]

I've just always wanted a concrete home. Radiant floor heating and cooling.

 

[johngottfredson]

Regarding ICF's, they are better than SIP's, but definitely more money. I do know a guy locally who used them for his foundation (enthusiasts say its fine for that application) and has apparently had problems with water leaking.

There is a company in American Fork that produces a cheaper variant of ICF's using a different type of foam material (essentially spray foam) and using wood slats rather than plastic to provide rigidity to the forms. With the different materials and their process, their pricing seemed to be about half the price of the traditional ICF's, so its something I had thought about using. If you get farther than bench racing with this idea, I can put you in contact with them.

Regarding well water and solar, that's a definite must on my list, as long as I'm dreaming about my off-grid home on some acreage. Propane, my own well, solar panels...probably some buried bunker full of guns, I guess, while I'm at it...

 

[Greg]

On KSL.COM today they had a story on s straw bale house. I bet you could get his number and call that guy

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=40451248&n...h-heating-bills-utahn-builds-straw-bale-house

usually people like this like to talk about it. I would ask him

That's my neighbor. His house is right through the block. Come on up Greg and I'm sure I can get you a tour.

That article is what got me thinking about it again, I've looked at strawbale construction for quite awhile and while I'm interested in the idea, I don't think the massive labor requirements and potential issues are something I want to tackle.

It would suck if it caught fire.

The straw bales are plastered over, plus they're so compacted in bale-form there is hardly any oxygen to feed a fire. I bet a stick-built home would burn better that a strawbale home!

Greg, this has been my exact line of thinking for a few years now. I have a few really good passive solar construction books from the '70s (energy crisis pushed a lot of these kinds of books onto the market), and strawbale is my material of choice. I stumbled on this blog where a husband and wife here in Utah built just this kind of house in Torrey where they currently reside. Kind of fun to see them as a couple working together to build their retirement home, and they do a good job sharing the good and the bad along the way: http://maryandscotthouseofstraw.blogspot.com/

I have a couple books on strawbale construction, I have one that was about a group building strawbale homes on Indian Reservations. The homes were pretty simple, didn't need to meet code requirements of a traditional home, went up decently easy with a lot of hands, and provided warm homes in harsh Winter climates.

My hangups with strawbale have already been mentioned, I don't think I could build a home with strawbale construction... but love the idea of building a super-insulated home with passive solar constructions, using modern materials. I don't know enough about ICF's and SIP's, but think I'd much rather use them for traditional construction. Acquiring financing would be easier (I hear it's almost a nightmare to get financing for a strawbale home), much less labor (my friend assembled his ICF's and installed the rebar), etc.

I don't particularly like the straw idea. However, I have never actually been in one, or been a part of one being built. If you do in fact build a straw house, I would enjoy visiting throughout the process. I have taken a few courses and lectures on 'green building', but no real world experience.
I personally would be very nervous about the longevity of straw bails. But I don't have data to say one way or the other...
-What about bugs? Bugs love straw. Will there be continual battles with bugs, or will it be similar to a typical house?
-Do the bugs feed on the straw, or help to break it down faster?

I have the belief that 'green' costs more. The up front is more, and the upkeep is more. You save during the interim, but is it enough to be cost effective?
My example is the prius. Sure, it doesn't cost fuel (although it does add $ to electric bill) but when it comes time to replace $5,000 worth of batteries, did you really save any money?
But I could be very wrong altogether.

SIP's are obviously very different than straw. How long can you expect an SIP house to last? are you going to get 100+ years like a stick built house? Can the panels be replaced individually if needed? like if a drunk smacks the corner of your house.. how does that get fixed?

We appraisers are bred to dislike change. We don't embrace new very well, especially what we don't understand... so I would be hesitant to try any of your options.. but I would enjoy following your process so that I can learn and embrace new

A properly sealed strawbale house should last quite a long time and straw has nothing edible that bugs would be interested in, so no issues there. While the strawbale idea is neat, I want something more traditional built using the ideas that strawbale provides. I don't know about SIP's and the questions you bring up... I think I have just as many questions as you do!

I've just always wanted a concrete home. Radiant floor heating and cooling.

Concrete + insulation seems to be the best overall combo.

Regarding ICF's, they are better than SIP's, but definitely more money. I do know a guy locally who used them for his foundation (enthusiasts say its fine for that application) and has apparently had problems with water leaking.

There is a company in American Fork that produces a cheaper variant of ICF's using a different type of foam material (essentially spray foam) and using wood slats rather than plastic to provide rigidity to the forms. With the different materials and their process, their pricing seemed to be about half the price of the traditional ICF's, so its something I had thought about using. If you get farther than bench racing with this idea, I can put you in contact with them.

Regarding well water and solar, that's a definite must on my list, as long as I'm dreaming about my off-grid home on some acreage. Propane, my own well, solar panels...probably some buried bunker full of guns, I guess, while I'm at it...

My friend that i mentioned who used ICF's built his basement with them, then added a log cabin kit on top of the basement. I don't think he has has any leakage problems. While I love basements, I think I'd build a single-story home, with the mentioned concrete floor and passive solar gain plans. Or possibly a standard concrete basement, with ICF (or SIP) construction for the main level. I prefer the idea of ICF's because they're like huge Lego blocks and you can DIY them pretty easily & quickly.

Off-grid is fun to think about, but IMO living with the creature comforts that we're used to off-grid wouldn't be the same. I doubt you can run central air on solar.... etc. Being tied to the power grid, WITH solar panels to supplement you power and reduce costs is more realistic, IMO. Having a well for water would be great, no city water. Septic system instead of sewer is fine. Propane for heat & cooking is perfect!

We actually owned 18 acres North of Fruita a few years ago that would have been perfect for an off-grid home, but no city water and no possibility for well water meant it was limited to hauling water... not what I wanted to do. We sold it, the new owner paid to run power to the land ($30k or so, IIRC) and hauls water.

Mold would be my fear above anything else. However, I don't know all that much about strawbale buildings and their idiosyncrasies.

Yep, I agree... if the roof & walls leak and the straw got wet it would require a massive rebuild.

 

[glockman]

Have you looked at envelope houses? One of my friends has an envelope house and we grew up down the street from one. His home is 2300sqft and is heated with a small gas fireplace and cooled with a small window AC unit that he only runs in the mid to upper 90's. Both his home and the one where we grew up were built in the early 80s so the longevity is proven. I'd bet with modern materials being what they are, you could improve on the envelope design. Something to consider.

 

[Brad J]

My Sister & Brother in Law have a Straw Built Home in Moab. It was build by a group of Students & a teacher that had done a few. They did have a problem with mold on some of the bales when it was being built. Those bales were replaced and it seems like everything has been fine since then. There is plaster on both sides of the stray so it looks just like an adobe home. It is a very comfortable home & they love it. When I first heard about it being built I couldn't help but think of the 3 little pigs story.

 

[SnwMnkys]

My friend that i mentioned who used ICF's built his basement with them, then added a log cabin kit on top of the basement. I don't think he has has any leakage problems. While I love basements, I think I'd build a single-story home, with the mentioned concrete floor and passive solar gain plans. Or possibly a standard concrete basement, with ICF (or SIP) construction for the main level. I prefer the idea of ICF's because they're like huge Lego blocks and you can DIY them pretty easily & quickly.

Am I this friend? Or do you have more than one friend who did this?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Am I this friend? Or do you have more than one friend who did this?

View attachment 105739

Clean! Where is that? What's the approx build cost for the shell?

 

[SnwMnkys]

Its on the western border of Glacier national park, and 5 miles from the Canadian border. Log package alone was about $75k 10 years ago. Here it is with the metal roof installed.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

*dream*

 

[ttora4runner]

Have you looked into this: http://sirewall.com/

There's a company in New Mexico that does similar work.

 

[Houndoc]

I don't know his construction material, but have a friend who lives about 20 miles outside Ft Collins that is totally off grid- solar with back-up battery, specifically designed flooring to retain heat etc. I few years ago was the subject of several magazine right-ups for its energy efficiency.

 

[gcb17]

Our house here in NC has solar and a windmill feeding a 12V battery bank, so that's an option. The builder (previous owner) ran power from the battery bank to one aux receptacle in each room, but more importantly to light fixtures in the bathrooms and closets. There are also some "mood lights" in the living room and kitchen that we use 99% of the time. It's free power! The battery bank is also hooked up to an inverter to change it to 120V. That is hooked directly to a small section of breakers in the fuse box in case of power outage. Our (120V) power bill has never been above $50. Not sure if it's because the 12V lighting helps or if we're just cheap.

Relying 100% on solar is a bit daunting, but there are options... And a well/septic are the way to go. If you have enough land there's no reason to pay for water/sewer.

 

[ricsrx]

Our house here in NC has solar and a windmill feeding a 12V battery bank, so that's an option. The builder (previous owner) ran power from the battery bank to one aux receptacle in each room, but more importantly to light fixtures in the bathrooms and closets. There are also some "mood lights" in the living room and kitchen that we use 99% of the time. It's free power! The battery bank is also hooked up to an inverter to change it to 120V. That is hooked directly to a small section of breakers in the fuse box in case of power outage. Our (120V) power bill has never been above $50. Not sure if it's because the 12V lighting helps or if we're just cheap.

Relying 100% on solar is a bit daunting, but there are options... And a well/septic are the way to go. If you have enough land there's no reason to pay for water/sewer.

so if i understand this correctly;
you have 12vdc outlets in each room
your aux lighting in each rooms fixtures including mood lighting are also 12vdc and are they all wall switched or on a photo cell or use some other lighting control?

thanks