LS1 camshaft upgrade?

[I Lean]

This is an area I've never played with personally, so I'd love some advice from people who have BTDT.

The subject would be my 1999 Corvette LS1. It is a fun car, but some more power would be very welcomed. 😁 It currently has an axle-back exhaust, and a cold air intake. So nothing that will add any power yet.

I don't want to lose any drivability, and I really like the highway fuel economy (29 MPG is incredible to me)...so I don't want to compromise too too much. Am I dreaming, thinking I can get something for nothing?

On the same line of thinking, would there be any point in getting the stock computer tuned without any internal upgrades?

I'm sure there are a bunch of you that have messed with engines a lot more than I have, but a few off the top of my head to tag:
@Greg
@zmotorsports
@NYCEGUY01

 

[glockman]

@mbryson's Buick is as close to sex in an engine note as you can get. I don't know how drivable it is but it's just plain cool.

 

[Agility Customs]

You should call Texas speed and just have a conversation with them. I did that when I upgraded a 5.3 truck engine and it was awesome. Super smart and a few things I read on the internet I thought was a good idea they talked me out of and once it was up and running it was exactly what i wanted and I wouldnt have changed a thing

Texas Speed and Performance

Texas Speed & Performance is your one-stop shop for all LS and Gen 5 LT1 & LT4 performance parts and engines! We are among the largest LS and Gen 5 LT1/LT4-specific shops in the country, and we machine and assemble all of our engines, camshafts, and Precision Race Components cylinder heads in...

www.texas-speed.com

 

[I Lean]

You should call Texas speed and just have a conversation with them. I did that when I upgraded a 5.3 truck engine and it was awesome. Super smart and a few things I read on the internet I thought was a good idea they talked me out of and once it was up and running it was exactly what i wanted and I wouldnt have changed a thing

Texas Speed and Performance

Texas Speed & Performance is your one-stop shop for all LS and Gen 5 LT1 & LT4 performance parts and engines! We are among the largest LS and Gen 5 LT1/LT4-specific shops in the country, and we machine and assemble all of our engines, camshafts, and Precision Race Components cylinder heads in...

www.texas-speed.com

I will definitely talk to them before buying something, but I'm not that serious yet. This is just bench Racing for now. 🙂

 

[UNSTUCK]

^ this. Then whatever parts they recommend go over to Michigan motor sports and buy from them. The TSP part were quite a bit cheaper through them.
Or
I have a stock LQ4 cam in decent shape just sitting here. If it’s an upgrade to your ls1 cam I’ll send it to you if you want it.
Then take it to Absolute Performance in Sandy for a dyno tune. He’s a Carl too. Then again, 2 carls together might not be a good thing. Then again, he might be Karl. Totally different.

 

[kmboren]

My cousin tunes LS and with some minor tuning and a couple simple bolt on upgrades there is significant power to be made. Too bad he is in Southern Utah. I bought my 1998 LS1 camaro from him and he also tuned our 5.3 that lives in the buggy. I can reach out to him for advice if you'd like.

 

[I Lean]

^ this. Then whatever parts they recommend go over to Michigan motor sports and buy from them. The TSP part were quite a bit cheaper through them.
Or
I have a stock LQ4 cam in decent shape just sitting here. If it’s an upgrade to your ls1 cam I’ll send it to you if you want it.
Then take it to Absolute Performance in Sandy for a dyno tune. He’s a Carl too. Then again, 2 carls together might not be a good thing. Then again, he might be Karl. Totally different.

I have no idea if the LQ4 cam is an upgrade or not. That's the type of thing I'm hoping to learn here. 🙂

My cousin tunes LS and with some minor tuning and a couple simple bolt on upgrades there is significant power to be made. Too bad he is in Southern Utah. I bought my 1998 LS1 camaro from him and he also tuned our 5.3 that lives in the buggy. I can reach out to him for advice if you'd like.

I would definitely appreciate advice. I like the sound of "simple bolt on....significant power". 👍

 

[Greg]

Depending on how much power you want to gain, a good quality cam, upgraded intake and high quality tune will really wake it up. I don't see the MPG changing, unless you can't keep your foot out of it! The majority of your power gains will be over 3000 RPM though, you may see some small gains down low depending on the cam you choose but you'll really feel it up high.

Is the 'Vette a manual or auto? Bigger cams will really want a higher stall convertor, if it's an auto.

There's so many LS cam options and most are pretty decent. I'd stick with either a Comp Cam or Brian Tooley Racing cam though. Do some reading, see what RPM range the cam will be most effective and decide what you want. Factory LS cams are tiny, you'll see decent gains with just a cam... but most cams with a good amount of lift will require new, stiffer valve springs. You can find some aftermarket cams that do not require stiffer valve springs, if you want to save $$$.

You can typically find cam kits that include new lifters, stiffer push rods and valve springs rated for the cam. And I'd highly suggest new lifters with the new cam, the factory LS7 lifters are a good upgrade that aren't silly expensive.

Upgrading the rockers to trunnions from needle bearings is wise too, you can buy a kit and press in your own trunnions, or buy rockers with them already installed.

https://amzn.to/3UrSeBP

In order to do a cam swap, you'll need to pull the heads... depending on the miles on your LS1, it may be worth having the heads cleaned up, valve job, new valve seals, etc. A machine shop could install the new valve springs at that point. I'd also replace the timing set, out of precaution. Put it back together with a good set of FelPro MLS head gaskets. You'll need new head bolts, factory bolts are TTY and junk after one use.

A better intake would help along with the cam, if you can find a factory LS6 intake that would be a good upgrade over the LS1 intake. If you want massive gains, a FAST / Wilson LSX will REALLY help wake the engine up.

FYI, a narrow LSA (lobe separation angle) will give you more 'chop' at idle and sound more mean... wider LSA won't do that. (corrected for accuracy, had it backward)

If you upgrade to a bigger cam, you're going to need to get it tuned.... and I'd recommend paying someone with a chassis dyno to get it right. Timing, AFR, etc all make a difference when you're tuning after upgrades. @RockChucker had a guy in SLC tune his truck/LS3 and it seems like some solid tuning. Who did that again Dave?

 

[Greg]

Some good LS intake reading, obviously you'll need to stick with the low profile intakes but there's a TON of good info in here. - https://www.motortrend.com/news/20-ls1-intake-manifolds-tested/

 

[Greg]

I don't think a LQ4 cam (or any other factory cam *unless its a LS7 cam*) is worth the gains, considering all the work involved.

*EDIT* - I bet you'd gain torque down low, but have a big loss in HP up high.

 

[Greg]

From Comp Cams;

This looks like a nice boost in power over stock that doesn't require new valve springs... +70 HP and +30 TQ - https://www.compcams.com/hv-nsr-cam-218-266-hyd-roller-for-gen-iii-iv-541.html

Here's a bigger cam that does need stiffer springs, the springs are 'affordable' (so they say) but the gains are higher.... close to 100 HP - https://www.compcams.com/hv-cam-226-234-hyd-roller-for-gen-iii-iv-575-570.html


Those dyno charts are using a Gen IV 5.3 with good heads and a TBSS intake, which is a great performing truck intake. As a rule of thumb, power gains will be similar on a 5.3 vs a 5.7 (or larger), but the power will just move down lower in the curve with more displacement.

 

[Greg]

Just spitballing, but I think with a decent sized cam, LS6 or FAST intake and a quality tune.... I bet you'd see around 150 HP gains.

 

[nnnnnate]

What does a quality tune cost? On a frame Dyno?

 

[Greg]

What does a quality tune cost? On a frame Dyno?

Probably around $500, minimum. When I had my El Camino tuned (L33 engine w/ 4L60E), I provided my HP Tuners interface with 2 credits for tuning already purchased ($100), the tuner didn't have a dyno and rather tuned it on the street. It cost me $350 for the tune work and he had the car for over a week.... testing out hot & cold starts, adjusting transmission shift points, timing, etc, etc. Honestly for all the time he put into my car, I got a screaming deal. But he wanted to make sure it was done right, and it was.

 

[Greg]

... On the same line of thinking, would there be any point in getting the stock computer tuned without any internal upgrades?

Probably not, the engine might run a little better but I don't think you'd actually feel any improvements.... I could be wrong though?

 

[UNSTUCK]

You don’t “need” to pull the heads to swap the cam. Remove the rockers and push rods and rotate the cam a couple times. The lifter trays should hold the lifters up in place. Keep rotating the cam as it slides out. Quickly slide the new cam in while rotating it again. Pray the trays aren’t so worn that they drop lifters. 😁

 

[Greg]

You don’t “need” to pull the heads to swap the cam. Remove the rockers and push rods and rotate the cam a couple times. The lifter trays should hold the lifters up in place. Keep rotating the cam as it slides out. Quickly slide the new cam in while rotating it again. Pray the trays aren’t so worn that they drop lifters. 😁

I don't have that kind of luck!

 

[Greg]

This is the Comp Cam I put in my L33 El Camino engine... it pulled hard on the top end. 😍

XFI RPM 216/220 Hydraulic Roller Cam for GM LS GEN III/IV

XFI RPM 216/220 Hydraulic Roller Cam for GM LS GEN III/IV. Great mid-range with superior top end power. Needs computer modifications.

www.compcams.com

 

[RockChucker]

Depending on how much power you want to gain, a good quality cam, upgraded intake and high quality tune will really wake it up. I don't see the MPG changing, unless you can't keep your foot out of it! The majority of your power gains will be over 3000 RPM though, you may see some small gains down low depending on the cam you choose but you'll really feel it up high.

Is the 'Vette a manual or auto? Bigger cams will really want a higher stall convertor, if it's an auto.

There's so many LS cam options and most are pretty decent. I'd stick with either a Comp Cam or Brian Tooley Racing cam though. Do some reading, see what RPM range the cam will be most effective and decide what you want. Factory LS cams are tiny, you'll see decent gains with just a cam... but most cams with a good amount of lift will require new, stiffer valve springs. You can find some aftermarket cams that do not require stiffer valve springs, if you want to save $$$.

You can typically find cam kits that include new lifters, stiffer push rods and valve springs rated for the cam. And I'd highly suggest new lifters with the new cam, the factory LS7 lifters are a good upgrade that aren't silly expensive. Upgrading the rockers to bushings from needle bearings is wise too, you can buy a kit and press in your own bushings, or buy rockers with bushings already installed.

In order to do a cam swap, you'll need to pull the heads... depending on the miles on your LS1, it may be worth having the heads cleaned up, valve job, new valve seals, etc. A machine shop could install the new valve springs at that point. I'd also replace the timing set, out of precaution. Put it back together with a good set of FelPro MLS head gaskets. You'll need new head bolts, factory bolts are TTY and junk after one use.

A better intake would help along with the cam, if you can find a factory LS6 intake that would be a good upgrade over the LS1 intake. If you want massive gains, a FAST / Wilson LSX will REALLY help wake the engine up.

FYI, a wider LSA (lobe separation angle) will give you more 'chop' at idle and sound more mean... more narrow won't do that.

If you upgrade to a bigger cam, you're going to need to get it tuned.... and I'd recommend paying someone with a chassis dyno to get it right. Timing, AFR, etc all make a difference when you're tuning after upgrades. @RockChucker had a guy in SLC tune his truck/LS3 and it seems like some solid tuning. Who did that again Dave?

I thought a wider LSA made the idle smoother. The narrower it gets, the more valve overlap you get. Causing more chop.

This is the cam I installed in my engine. YMMV due to heads and such, but my 6.0 is about 500 hp and 500 lb-ft based on air flow calcs. It was a pretty dismal number on the Dyno….but 40s, d60, gear driven tcase etc. it idles smooth and you really can’t hear much of a chop at idle. This cam does require valve springs. Regarding a cam install, you can do it without pulling the heads the lifter trays “should” hold the lifters in place but isn’t a guarantee. But if I recall, there are holes in the block behind the front cover that you can slide 5/16”ish rods in to block the lifters in the up position before you even pull the cam out. Good insurance IMO. Beefier push rods wouldn’t be a bad idea to pair with a cam with more lift and a more aggressive ramp rate.

I didn’t do lifter bushings, I bought comp cam’s trunnion bearing upgrade kit. It is a captured bearing.



I had Matt Snell at Paul’s automotive in sandy do the tune. Highly recommend.

Zoom zoom noises on start up

 

[Greg]

I thought a wider LSA made the idle smoother. The narrower it gets, the more valve overlap you get. Causing more chop.

You're right! I got it bassackwards.