New bag, WM Megalite or Zpacks? Fear based decision?

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
I think I'm going to order a zpacks tomorrow and try it out overnight to see how I like the quilt style without zipper in the bigger size.

Davy, was your bag overfilled at all, or is this the standard 10* bag?
 
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mesha

By endurance we conquer
Location
A.F.
I think I'm going to order a zpacks tomorrow and try it out overnight to see how I like the quilt style without zipper in the bigger size.

Davy, was your bag overfilled at all, or is this the standard 10* bag?

Great review steve. I never noticed the zipper, but that is probably because I never zip it up :)

My bag is standard fill for packs, however, they overfill ever bag 30% compared to many manufacturers.
 

DAA

Well-Known Member
Awesome. Thanks a TON for the detailed synopsis Steve!

I'm afraid it only made my decision harder, but, I'd rather have a choice made more difficult with additional data, than left easier by the lack of data.

I want to love the Zpacks. 7 oz. is a nice fillet, my titanium grill and a cigar :cool:.

Every one of your notes that nudged me in either direction, nudged me towards the WM though...

But I still want to love the Zpacks. Sigh... I'm really not sure what I'll end up doing. But if I had to decide right this second, I think I'd go ahead and order the Zpacks and give it a chance. If I don't love it, price it to sell and end up paying way too much to own the Megalite.

The first BP trip I have scheduled isn't until the first of May. I'll probably order a bag in Feb. though, just to avoid any chance of delay. So, still another two months or so before I have to pull the trigger. Will continue to absorb as much data as I can, but, ultimately, I think if I want to save that extra weight, I'm just gonna have to roll the dice...

- DAA
 

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
It's funny, it didn't really help make my decision easier either. It definitely helped me know what the zpacks felt like and how I'd use it best, and that was good. One moment I learn towards a zpacks and the next I'm at a Katabatic, and the next I'm at a WM that can unzip like a quilt.

One thing is for sure: we all sleep differently and there's no perfect bag that's going to be everyone's favorite in every situation. For that reason, I'm currently leaning towards a regular bag with a hood, then I can unzip it and use it like a quilt if I want. The 7 oz doesn't matter to me, they're both stupid light. What really surprised me the most was how much roomier the WM is (too roomy for me).
 

DAA

Well-Known Member
Yeah, reading your review, I couldn't help thinking that a Katabatic might suit you better than either. Or, if you are going to own both, from your notes, it really does sound like you might be happier with a no compromise full blown quilt like that Katabatic than the "quilt like" Zpacks bag.

The whole thing is kind of funny in a ridiculous, preposterous sort of way. I mean, obsessing, absolute obsessing, over 7 oz.? When I'm a self avowed "comfort driven" backpacker? It's ludicrous...

Yet, here I am, obsessing over 7 ounces...

But, here's the thing. I have my own self imposed requirements. I require more than minimal comfort. I'm always going to carry an air pad. When I'm backpacking the Uintas, I insist on carrying not just fishing equipment, but superb fishing equipment that enhances the experience for me. I usually carry "camp shoes", the mark of a true extravagence oriented backpacker... I always carry a real camera too. Personal quirks like these, mean more weight in my pack. And I'm okay with that.

But! At the same time, anywhere I can save some weight, WITHOUT impinging on my self imposed comfort and convenience requirements, I'm willing to spend some money and put in some effort to do it. I won't bore everyone with all the details of gear lists and why and whatever, but my first Uintas trip in 2012, my starting pack weight was 37 pounds. My starting pack weight for a Uintas trip in 2013 was 26 pounds. On non fishing trips, my starting weights last summer were 24 pounds (that's including about 4 pounds for a quart of Gatorade and a 5th of whiskey). The difference that a lighter pack made in my comfort and enjoyment along the trail was immense.

So, I have made a very concerted effort to get my pack as light as I possibly can, while maintaining my personal comfort standards. But, I've gotten down to the point that finding single ounces to jettison is very, very difficult. So, the appeal of being able to shave nearly half a pound off, in one whack, is TREMENDOUSLY appealing to me. I do see it as a VERY big deal. Combine that with a shelter change next year that ought to gain me another half pound or more, and then maybe a different pack the year after that to shave off another whole pound, and I'm getting to where my starting weight for a canyon trip will only be 20 pounds. I'd like that. Won't get there without treating every single ounce as a big deal though.

But... This is my sleeping comfort we're talking about! It's an area I hold dear.

Hence, the agonizing, the obsessing, over a measly 7 ounces...

- DAA
 

mesha

By endurance we conquer
Location
A.F.
Yeah, reading your review, I couldn't help thinking that a Katabatic might suit you better than either. Or, if you are going to own both, from your notes, it really does sound like you might be happier with a no compromise full blown quilt like that Katabatic than the "quilt like" Zpacks bag.

The whole thing is kind of funny in a ridiculous, preposterous sort of way. I mean, obsessing, absolute obsessing, over 7 oz.? When I'm a self avowed "comfort driven" backpacker? It's ludicrous...

Yet, here I am, obsessing over 7 ounces...

But, here's the thing. I have my own self imposed requirements. I require more than minimal comfort. I'm always going to carry an air pad. When I'm backpacking the Uintas, I insist on carrying not just fishing equipment, but superb fishing equipment that enhances the experience for me. I usually carry "camp shoes", the mark of a true extravagence oriented backpacker... I always carry a real camera too. Personal quirks like these, mean more weight in my pack. And I'm okay with that.

But! At the same time, anywhere I can save some weight, WITHOUT impinging on my self imposed comfort and convenience requirements, I'm willing to spend some money and put in some effort to do it. I won't bore everyone with all the details of gear lists and why and whatever, but my first Uintas trip in 2012, my starting pack weight was 37 pounds. My starting pack weight for a Uintas trip in 2013 was 26 pounds. On non fishing trips, my starting weights last summer were 24 pounds (that's including about 4 pounds for a quart of Gatorade and a 5th of whiskey). The difference that a lighter pack made in my comfort and enjoyment along the trail was immense.

So, I have made a very concerted effort to get my pack as light as I possibly can, while maintaining my personal comfort standards. But, I've gotten down to the point that finding single ounces to jettison is very, very difficult. So, the appeal of being able to shave nearly half a pound off, in one whack, is TREMENDOUSLY appealing to me. I do see it as a VERY big deal. Combine that with a shelter change next year that ought to gain me another half pound or more, and then maybe a different pack the year after that to shave off another whole pound, and I'm getting to where my starting weight for a canyon trip will only be 20 pounds. I'd like that. Won't get there without treating every single ounce as a big deal though.

But... This is my sleeping comfort we're talking about! It's an area I hold dear.

Hence, the agonizing, the obsessing, over a measly 7 ounces...

- DAA

7 ounces is a big deal though. Thinking like that is why your pack weight is what it is and not 45 lbs.
 

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
I think you've answered your own question now Dave. Get the zpacks, save the 7 oz, and if you don't like it, sell it. You'll maybe lose $50 on it.

I wish I could try a few different size katabatics. I have no clue which size I'd want, and I'm not quite sure how their weight stacks up to a zpacks. I don't think anyone makes a lighter bag for the temp rating than zpacks.

zpacks - wide, xtra-long 10* weighs 24.7 oz.

Katabatic Sawatch - wide, xtra-long 15* weighs 29.7.

WM Apache MF - 5'6" length, 15* weighs 30 oz.

The zpacks is still 5 oz heavier than each of these, and rated at 5* lower, and includes a zipper. No doubt it's the lightest out there. I wonder how much weight you'd save by ditching the zipper.
 
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mesha

By endurance we conquer
Location
A.F.
I think you've answered your own question now Dave. Get the zpacks, save the 7 oz, and if you don't like it, sell it. You'll maybe lose $50 on it.

I wish I could try a few different size katabatics. I have no clue which size I'd want, and I'm not quite sure how their weight stacks up to a zpacks. I don't think anyone makes a lighter bag for the temp rating than zpacks.

katabatic is heavier. The 15 degree katabatic weighs about 5 ounces more than the ZPacks 10 degree. The katabatic is also narrower for the weight.
 

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
I don't think the Katabatic gives me anything that the WM Apache doesn't already have. They're .3g apart, and the apache will have a full hood if I decide to go that route. I'm learning towards a WM ultralight or a WM apache. Zpacks is really on to something though, that bag is significantly lighter than anything else out there.
 

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
I was assuming that if a 2' section of zipper weighed 1.2 oz, the 4' of existing zipper would weigh 3-5oz. I was way off. Thanks for clarifying that.

It seems weird that the zipper to the last baffle is twice as heavy, and half the length. I wonder if it's the second zipper pull that's adding all the weight.
 
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mesha

By endurance we conquer
Location
A.F.
The way I read this on the site is that you add 1.2 oz to extend your zipper all the way to the last baffle. Is that correct, or is he saying the entire zipper weighs 1.2 oz?

it adds 1.2 ounces. I guess I should have said if you add them up then you save 1.8 ounces.
 

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
oh, I get it now. Thanks. Sorry, I need a special ed learning plan for this thread. Can you stay after school to explain the difficult concepts to me at my pace?
 

mesha

By endurance we conquer
Location
A.F.
oh, I get it now. Thanks. Sorry, I need a special ed learning plan for this thread. Can you stay after school to explain the difficult concepts to me at my pace?

Absolutely I can stay after :)

by the way the inside of the bag had that rubbery feeling from brand new. It is not because it is dirty.
 

ozzy702

Well-Known Member
Location
Sandy, UT
How durable is the material used on the zpacks bag compared with the WM? I've got an older marmot helium but it's basically a 10 degree bag and too hot for summer camping.
 

sixstringsteve

Well-Known Member
Location
UT
my scientific eye says that the zpacks looks every bit as durable as the WM. We all know that WM is extremely durable.
 
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