Off-Road Vehicles out!

way2nosty

Registered User
Lets Go!

SUWA is hosting "Wild Nights!" - a monthly volunteer program, to be held this month on Wednesday, November 9th between 6:30 - 8:30 PM at our new office building on 425 East 100 South, Salt Lake City, UT 84111.


Our guest speaker for the evening is Ray Bloxham, SUWA's Factory Butte expert. He will be letting us in on the intricacies of BLM's recreation and travel plan process for the area around our beloved Factory Butte. "Wild Nights!" will be held the second Wednesday of each month, so if you can't make it in November, there's at least one more opportunity on Dec. 14th!

We hope to see you and enlist your help!

Pack the room with 70 or so avid "ORV USERS" and lets see how far they get, everyone wear your club jacket and drive your jeep there. covered with mud. Don't forget the Tread Lightly sticker.
 

ace

Parts Collector
Location
Bountiful
The Moab Jeep Safari is a 9-day event that draws thousands upon thousands of jeep, rock crawler, and highly-modified truck operators to the world-famous redrock canyons surrounding Moab where they drive their machines up rock ledges, over trees, through crystal clear creeks, across sensitive soil crusts, and over nearly any natural obstacle that looks challenging.


:ugh: :ugh:
 

UtahFire

Registered User
Nice bit of "bomb throwing" in that statement. I have been wheeling in Moab for years and I have yet to see people driving over "every natural obsticle that looks challenging". The problem here is that most of the readers of this propaganda don't know Moab. Most of the political supporters for the Redrock Wilderness Act are on the East Coast. The sponser in the house is Maurice Hinchey (D-NY) and the sponsor in the Senate is Richard Durbin (D-IL). The chairman of the SUWA board lives in Paoli, PA.
 

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
The Moab Jeep Safari is a 9-day event that draws thousands upon thousands of jeep, rock crawler, and highly-modified truck operators to the world-famous redrock canyons surrounding Moab where they drive their machines up rock ledges, over trees, through crystal clear creeks, across sensitive soil crusts, and over nearly any natural obstacle that looks challenging.


I agree... That's a pretty blanket statement and obviously the author has never even attended a Jeep Safari. If that did indeed happen BLM would have closed that down long time ago. I would venture to say that during the EJS tread lightly is more in force than any winter weekday. And to say 'highly modified trucks'. I would put money on that there are more stock or practically stock rigs than buggies during that week.
 

broncodan

For Your Viewing Pleasure
Location
Draper, UT
These guys are chumps. I cannot even believe that these *@^%'s don't even live within 1,000 miles of here. They just need something to argue with people about :mad2: !
 

jakez

Registered User
Location
Provo, UT
What?!

I think the most interesting thing about their site is if you look under Events and then Service Trips, you find this.

"Service Trips

There are no service trips scheduled at this time."

They had the same thing posted about a month ago.
Looks like they're doing a lot for the environment. :-\
 

Devel

Just an Outlaw....
Location
North Salt Lake
did u notice the showing of wild utah in illinois wat is that going to prove and i think id agree in saying that these yuppies have never been to ejs
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
Wonder what they would think if a group from USA-All, U4WDA or other club came along on a service project (if they ever actually had one)....If done kindly (goes for those attending a meeting as well) could open there eyes to who we really are.
 

greenjeep

Cause it's green, duh!
Location
Moab Local!
Here is a letter to the editor which I sent in to our local paper, and was printed this week in response to SUWAs paid adverisement. (drtsqrl and I collaborated together on it)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In response to SUWA’s “Redrock News, Let the Facts Speak for Themselves”, in last week’s Times -Independent:

“Fact 1: The Moab Jeep Safari, now into its fourth decade, was southern Utah’s original off-road vehicle event and has spawned dozens of other similar events on Utah’s public lands.”

Response: And your point is?


“Fact 2: There is no doubt that the Jeep Safari event is responsible for drawing the jeeps and rock crawlers to our area.”

Response: While this may have been true years ago, BLM’s own figures indicate that the registered participants of Jeep Safari is now only a very small percentage of the total vehicles on the trail during Easter week. According to Appendix E in the EA, use of the Hell’s Revenge trail during Safari (Hell’s Revenge is the most popular Jeep Safari trail) constitute only 4.4% of all annual use! Does SUWA really believe that denying some or all trails on the permit will stop these people from coming?


“Fact 3: There can be little argument that damages to our public lands result from the lawlessness that occurs during the two weeks of the event.”

Response: True, damage does occur, although the damage is much less than SUWA would like us to believe. But denial of permitted routes would only keep the registered Safari participants off the trails. Anyone else could still use them. And BLM’s research shows that the non-registered vehicles cause virtually all of the damage.


“Fact 4: Bowing to pressure by the Redrock 4-Wheelers, the BLM’s proposed action would not only authorize the use of past Jeep Safari routes, but also allow new trails to be opened up to the chaos that Jeep Safari brings to SE Utah’s canyon country.”

Response: The two new trails (one of which has actually been permitted in the past for a RR4W event) are both outside of Blanding, far from the hub of Safari activity. It is unlikely that permitting the new trails will lead to additional “chaos”.


“Fact 5: More is not always better.”

Response: My fear is that SUWA’s “solution” to this problem would actually cause more damage to the trails, at least for the foreseeable future. Eliminating the responsible, while still allowing everyone else, does not seem like the right way to go.


“Fact 6: SUWA requested that several short segments and spurs in sensitive areas be omitted from the permit. In most cases, if these segments were dropped from the permit, an alternative segment exists that would allow Jeep Safari to keep the overall route. In some cases, the segment is a simple out-and-back side trip from the regular route. Dropping the requested segments would not cause most of the affected routes to be dropped from Jeep Safari.”

Response: This is a quote from the EA itself (article 2.5.3). “This alternative [SUWA’s alterative] would eliminate the following 16 routes in their entirety: Arch Canyon, Golden Spike, Hole in the Rock, Hotel Rock, and Pritchett Canyon. Integral portions of the following routes would be eliminated: Behind the Rocks, Copper Ridge, Crystal Geyser, Dolores Triangle, Dome Plateau, Hell Roaring Rim, Hey Joe, Lockhart Basin, Moab Rim, Secret Spire, Steel Bender, and Top of the World. Eliminating these portions of the routes would result in disconnected segments that would render the entire route unusable.” Enough said.


“Fact 7: BLM did not fully analyze SUWA’s proposal. The BLM’s proposed set of alternatives includes an option – Alternative B - that, while not as protective as SUWA’s proposal, is better than the Proposed Action. It would protect a few sensitive areas from further damage while still allowing Jeep Safari participants a great experience.”

Response: I do believe that the BLM understands that denial of permitted Safari routes, in full or in part, could actually lead to more trail damage. Either SUWA just doesn’t get it, or they choose to present only the “facts” that they feel will further their agenda. Again to quote Article 2.5.3, “In many cases, conflicts raised by SUWA could not be adequately supported with data or information to warrant further consideration for inclusion in this alternative.”


In closing, I agree that “Easter Jeep Week” in Moab has in many ways become problematic. But I believe that disallowing the registered Safari participants would be a huge mistake. The people will still come, whether all the Safari routes are under permit or not. SUWA is certainly entitled to their opinion, but disguising it as unanalyzed and half-truth “facts” is just propaganda. And that is my opinion.
 

Marshall

Was That a U-Joint?
Location
Farmington, UT
That is an excellent letter. Educated and organized arguments are the only way to gain any headway. And Houndoc, that sounds like a great idea, I would love to go to a SUWA service project. I think it would be on their end we would have to worry; I don't think they would accept help from us, but if we can organize it, I'm IN!
 

Dan Wilson

Registered User
What do they mean?

I checked their page. What does this part mean?

"SUWA submitted an alternative proposal to BLM that would remove less than 10% of the total 630 miles from the Jeep Safari permit, in order to protect the most sensitive resources."

Has anyone seen what they submitted?
 

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
Dan Wilson said:
I checked their page. What does this part mean?

"SUWA submitted an alternative proposal to BLM that would remove less than 10% of the total 630 miles from the Jeep Safari permit, in order to protect the most sensitive resources."

Has anyone seen what they submitted?
I haven't seen it, but I bet it means 'come on guys, were loosing. Lets back off a bit and take what we can get to fight later, when people arent looking'. Very sneeky people.... -_-
 

UtahFire

Registered User
Dan Wilson said:
I checked their page. What does this part mean?

"SUWA submitted an alternative proposal to BLM that would remove less than 10% of the total 630 miles from the Jeep Safari permit, in order to protect the most sensitive resources."

Has anyone seen what they submitted?

Option B is a reduced route proposal. The routes that would not be permitted is listed below. These are also some of the routes which would be closed if the America's Redrock Wilderness Act is passed.

The following routes or portions of routes would not be authorized for permitted use:
1) Arch Canyon (entire route). Conflict: the density of cultural sites along this route
2) The portion of Hey Joe Canyon along the Green River (8.8 miles).
Conflict: the presence of the route within the Green River floodplain, and the potential
impacts to threatened and endangered fish in that river.
3) Hotel Rock (entire route).
Conflict: the density of cultural sites along this route.
4) Kane Creek Canyon from the Hurrah Pass Road to U.S. Highway 191 (17.9 miles).
Conflict: potential erosion, sedimentation and degradation of riparian resources, as well
as potential hydrocarbon emission from vehicle use in Kane Creek.
5) Pritchett Canyon (entire route).
Conflict: potential degradation to riparian vegetation and increased erosion.
6) The easternmost portion of Tusher/Bartlett Wash near Highway 191 (3.6 miles of 3-D Route).
Conflict: potential destabilization of floodplains and damage to riparian vegetation.
7) The riparian portion of Tusher Canyon (a 2.4 mile section of Sevenmile Rim).
Conflict: potential degradation of riparian vegetation and loss of wetland functioning.
 

waynehartwig

www.jeeperman.com
Location
Mead, WA
UtahFire said:
Option B is a reduced route proposal. The routes that would not be permitted is listed below. These are also some of the routes which would be closed if the America's Redrock Wilderness Act is passed.

The following routes or portions of routes would not be authorized for permitted use:
1) Arch Canyon (entire route). Conflict: the density of cultural sites along this route
2) The portion of Hey Joe Canyon along the Green River (8.8 miles).
Conflict: the presence of the route within the Green River floodplain, and the potential
impacts to threatened and endangered fish in that river.
3) Hotel Rock (entire route).
Conflict: the density of cultural sites along this route.
4) Kane Creek Canyon from the Hurrah Pass Road to U.S. Highway 191 (17.9 miles).
Conflict: potential erosion, sedimentation and degradation of riparian resources, as well
as potential hydrocarbon emission from vehicle use in Kane Creek.
5) Pritchett Canyon (entire route).
Conflict: potential degradation to riparian vegetation and increased erosion.
6) The easternmost portion of Tusher/Bartlett Wash near Highway 191 (3.6 miles of 3-D Route).
Conflict: potential destabilization of floodplains and damage to riparian vegetation.
7) The riparian portion of Tusher Canyon (a 2.4 mile section of Sevenmile Rim).
Conflict: potential degradation of riparian vegetation and loss of wetland functioning.
Well that's bull****! :mad2: :mad2:
 

e28bimmer

Registered User
and yet another...

Id be willing to attend one of their meetings, not to start a fight, just to get an idea of their tactics. One thing they have yet to be able to fight is access to historical sites. ie, the more mines, ghost towns and caves are brought to light as having signifigant value, the less they can keep people out. its a double edged sword as the more people find out about places, the more they are usually vandalized and pillaged, but if enough people start visiting sites they will also keep vandalism down...(no one wants anyone to see them vandalizing).
Just a thought. These guys thrive off the conflicts that get them in the news so if you can subtley assasinate their arguement you win on two fronts, they have to think of some other arguement and it doesnt make any headlines.

--Corey

Corey Shuman
www.goldrushexpeditions.com
cshuman@goldrushexpeditions.com
 

wayfarerUT

Registered User
Location
Utah
From the Moab Newspaper: SUWA's Redrock News Update

Redrock News
by the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance

We Are Not Trying to Shut Down ORVs
Last week’s Letters
From The People included
one from Moab 4-wheeler
Tony Foster. In it he states:
“The SUWA’s agenda is to
shut down land use to all
motorized vehicles.”
Actually, nothing could
be further from the truth.
We appreciate Mr.
Foster’s obvious love of
the backcountry, and his
willingness to participate
in public debate. But on this
point, he is dead wrong.
For proof, just look
to our proposal for the
current Moab Jeep Safari
permit renewal. SUWA’s
proposal leaves 92% of
the proposed Jeep Safari
route miles available for
jeeps and other off-road
vehicles to enjoy. And that
does not count the many
miles of routes that would
be included in the permit
if SUWA’s suggestion for
re-routing around a few
isolated trouble spots
were implemented. If
those suggestions were
implemented, the total
miles of permitted routes
would be even closer
to 100% of Red Rock 4-
Wheelers’ proposal.
In what way does such a
fair and balanced proposal
reflect an agenda “to
shut down land use to all
motorized vehicles?” Mr.
Foster is simply echoing
the propaganda of extreme
right-wing partisans of
industry-funded off-road
organizations. Lately, those
groups seem to be running
scared at the thought that
they might be forced to
concede even one inch of
ground to the rest of the
public land users and the
general American public.
When one side in
a debate offers to
accommodate 92% or
more of the other side’s
request, most reasonable
folks would consider that
to be an extremely fair and
balanced attempt to come
to an agreement. Only off-
roaders dead set against
any kind of compromise
would try to twist such
a reasonable offer into
something that “locks
off-roaders out of public
lands.” What? 92% isn’t
enough for ORVers? Do
they want it all?
Another example is
SUWA’s proposal for the
Moab and Monticello
Resource Management
Plan that covers Grand
and San Juan Counties.
SUWA’s proposal would
leave the vast majority
of the BLM land open
to motorized travel via
an extensive network of
designated routes. But
don’t take our word for
it, look at the recreation
maps of the proposal at:
www.redrockheritage.org/
maps/. Alternatively, we
will happily mail you a copy.
Paid Advertisement
Call 259-4399, or email us
at information@suwa.org
and give us your address.
Need another example?
On a state level, total
BLM lands in Utah
comprise 23 million acres.
The America’s Redrock
Wilderness Bill now
before Congress calls for
less than 10 million acres
to be given protected
status. That leaves 57%
— 13 million acres — free
for motorized travel, in
addition to the thousands
of miles of routes that
form the boundaries to
these proposed wilderness
areas. How can that be
construed as trying to rid
the public lands of off-road
vehicles?
If you saw two kids
squabbling over some pie,
and one was demanding
100% of the pie while the
other was asking for 43%,
which would you think was
being fair and reasonable?
Mr. Foster’s statement
is unfortunate and very
misleading.
SUWA does not want
to rid the public lands of
off-road vehicles. There’s
plenty of room in Southern
Utah for all of us. It simply
requires the willingness
of both sides to look at
the greater good, and to
seek opportunities for
agreement, rather than
twisting the other side’s
position to suit a political
agenda.
 
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