Political So now what

[benjy]

A federally funded School Resource Officer program would cost $10B annually (one officer per public school), with current LEO salaries and 60% benefit load.

This would increase the defense budget by 1.3%. I’m sure the admin fees of the program would add astronomical costs, because government.

I just wish it would help. This shooter did all of this in a single classroom. Not much you can do to prevent that, easy to get into one class regardless of protocol in place.

The fact I have a kid in school now makes me a lot more anxious about this.

Ditto, it was different this time having 2nd graders.

 

[Hickey]

We can increase tactical security at our schools, and we should.

I don't understand why any teacher wouldn't want to conceal carry. If nothing else, to protect their own life. My sister has CC'd as a teacher/admin in public schools for 20 years now.

 

[moab_cj5]

This is such a tragedy. I honestly wish I knew the answer. Even at my kids school where you have to gain access through the office during school hours would still be a soft target if the office folks knew you and you were able to conceal your weapon.

I truly believe we need to enforce our current laws more fervently rather than add new ones. I also agree 100% that this is a mental health crisis more than a gun control problem. I wish I had the answer to this with 2 kids in school, but I don't.

One thing I do know, you are more likely to be killed by a drunk driver than a mass shooter. Per this Forbes article, 28 people per day die from DUI in the USA. I don't mention that to change the subject, but more to say laws don't always work to prevent bad things from happening. Last I checked, driving under the infulence was illegal, yet it continues to happen and people continue to die. It just doesn't hit the news everyday.

I would fully support more security at Schools. I would fully support measures to protect our kids more. I just don't know what those are and what that looks like. Do we want to turn our schools into prisons?

 

[Hickey]

This is such a tragedy. I honestly wish I knew the answer. Even at my kids school where you have to gain access through the office during school hours would still be a soft target if the office folks knew you and you were able to conceal your weapon.

I truly believe we need to enforce our current laws more fervently rather than add new ones. I also agree 100% that this is a mental health crisis more than a gun control problem. I wish I had the answer to this with 2 kids in school, but I don't.

One thing I do know, you are more likely to be killed by a drunk driver than a mass shooter. Per this Forbes article, 28 people per day die from DUI in the USA. I don't mention that to change the subject, but more to say laws don't always work to prevent bad things from happening. Last I checked, driving under the infulence was illegal, yet it continues to happen and people continue to die. It just doesn't hit the news everyday.

I would fully support more security at Schools. I would fully support measures to protect our kids more. I just don't know what those are and what that looks like. Do we want to turn our schools into prisons?

They don't need to resemble prisons. There's absolutely no reason for that.

Until recently, I had kids in school. I always made a point of CC'ing whenever I came to the school. I would urge everyone who has the permit to do the same. You never know if you have to be the one to make that difference one day.

 

[jeeper]

 

[TRD270]

Want to slow then stop school shootings? Stop this




Stop drawing soooooo much attention to it and it will lose it allure. These wankers have all this pent up aggression from something, mama not giving them enough hugs, girls ignoring them, boys ignoring them something set them down this path of loneliness and rage. They want attention that’s why they do this. STOP giving it to them, stop using it as your campaign speech, stop trying to stop law abiding citizens from having arms, stop playing it every hour of the day on the news for weeks. These lunatics are being spoon fed nonsense on YouTube that further angers them and sends them down this path.

 

[SoopaHick]

They don't need to resemble prisons. There's absolutely no reason for that.

Until recently, I had kids in school. I always made a point of CC'ing whenever I came to the school. I would urge everyone who has the permit to do the same. You never know if you have to be the one to make that difference one day.

This is something I love about the school I work at, or at least the trades side of it. I know of at least 4 other teachers in my building that are carrying.
I've had the coordinator of the trades tell me "if you've got the permit, I want you to carry here, and bring extra ammo."

Because of this, I've never felt the worry of an active shooter situation at our school.
Because we're a college campus, our door/controlled entry sucks when you look at it from a safety stand point. But that has never made me bat an eye anyways.

I know my school is safe.

 

[glockman]

What would I like to change? Well, I'd like my 6, almost 7 year old to wake me up at night because he had a bad dream about dinosaurs in the house rather than because he is worried about going to school. I'd like to not have my wife send me snippets and bios of the kids that were killed while I'm at work because I get choked up when I read them.

I'm not trying to be insensitive. I fully understand your emotional response. I can't read stories about child abuse because I am physically sick and can't sleep after for days. I had to stop reading those news stories. You should do the same. To pivot on TRD's point above and Pike's earlier, how much this shit is in the news directly affects our perception. You don't worry about 100 things that are far more likely to harm your child every day because the media isn't putting it on the top of every new feed.

Let's look at this issue rationally and not emotionally. How many kids are killed per year in school shootings. Less than 100. How can we address this tragedy? Mental health care, Banning assault weapons? Let' look at the gun ban that seems to be a popular proposal. Lets just say that's not unconstitutional, has no freedom ending ramifications and would actually stop school shootings. Let's say every person would actually turn in their AR for $100 paid by the government, which is 1/10 the actual value. There are over 30 million "assault rifles" in the US. If all the impossible things I just listed actually happened it would cost $3 billion to recover those weapons to save 100 lives. That is the lowest return on investment you can imagine. Nearly every single cause of death tracked by the CDC would net a larger gain in preventing loss of life than an "assault weapons" ban that is practically impossible. When you start to look at solutions, you have to be realistic and look at where you can put X number of resources to save the most amount of human suffering. School shootings aren't very high on that list.

People don't like to admit it but human lives are not priceless, even those of children. If they were, we would all sell every thing we owned to fund Primary Children's Hospital. We don't, it's a harsh reality but it's true. You can't even get close friends to fork over the price of a new car to save your child from a life threatening illness. It's just reality. Life is hard, people die. However, never in the history of humanity has life been so easy and so few people suffered so little and died tragically so infrequently. We need to count our blessings for living in such a miraculous time instead of buying into the emotionally manipulation of the media.

 

[nnnnnate]

I accept that there are many risks in our day to day lives. I also recognize that over time when things have been identified that can lower the risk we all face it's generally not been a bad thing.

You and others have mentioned cars and driving. Can you not say that the car you daily drive now isn't incredibly more safe than the car you learned to drive in? Seat belts, headlights disk brakes, ABS, airbags, etc all have made an incredibly dangerous thing less dangerous.

That's one example of something that's been regulated over time to become "more safe." I'm sure you all can think of many more other examples.

What regulations have came to exist to make guns "more safe?" Are there any? Maybe a stamp to be able to have a silencer?

I guess what I'm getting at is that we accept regulation in our lives daily and have all been beneficiaries of it. But when it comes to any regulation on guns or weapons there are those that immediately stomp their feet and cry foul and refuse to consider anything. Whether it'd be as small as 100% background checks or mag size limits or anything else.

 

[TRD270]

That's one example of something that's been regulated over time to become "more safe." I'm sure you all can think of many more other examples.

To that same point I forked over a lot of money for a new truck this year specifically because of all the new safety features that I don’t want and are becoming mandatory. We don’t need more regulation and mandatory safety equipment. I don’t want my car to stop for me I don’t want 93 cameras on it looking every which way I don’t want the engine to stop every time I stop at a light, I don’t want my car to beep at me if sway 1cm out of my lane. These are all becoming mandatory over time to make us “safer” . Death by 1000 little cuts on our freedoms. If you want that crap on your car fine make it an option, stop trying to control every aspect of my life by forcing it on me.

 

[glockman]

I accept that there are many risks in our day to day lives. I also recognize that over time when things have been identified that can lower the risk we all face it's generally not been a bad thing.

You and others have mentioned cars and driving. Can you not say that the car you daily drive now isn't incredibly more safe than the car you learned to drive in? Seat belts, headlights disk brakes, ABS, airbags, etc all have made an incredibly dangerous thing less dangerous.

That's one example of something that's been regulated over time to become "more safe." I'm sure you all can think of many more other examples.

What regulations have came to exist to make guns "more safe?" Are there any? Maybe a stamp to be able to have a silencer?

I guess what I'm getting at is that we accept regulation in our lives daily and have all been beneficiaries of it. But when it comes to any regulation on guns or weapons there are those that immediately stomp their feet and cry foul and refuse to consider anything. Whether it'd be as small as 100% background checks or mag size limits or anything else.

Here is why.
How do you impose a 100% background check? You have to have a gun registry. End of story. Without a list of what guns are where, you can't enforce private sales background checks. The registry ends in confiscation PERIOD. Maybe it takes 100 years, maybe not. After the gun confiscation for the sake of public safety, it only took 25 years for Australia to lock it's citizens in their houses and arrest them for being in their neighborhood park. China welded it's citizens into their homes last year. That is why I stomp my feet. Freedom isn't free. Many many people have given their lives so we could avoid being subjects of a political class.
If you'd like to see why magazine limits aren't a good idea, type "police shooting" into youtube and watch "trained professionals" fire a dozen rounds to keep someone from killing them, often unsuccessfully.

There are at least 20 million more guns in the US now than in the 90's and the crime rate has been in decline up until the mess that was 2020. Why is that? Why are Alabama and Alaska the only states on the top ten for both firearms ownership per capita and firearms deaths per capita? It's not about the guns.

All laws have unintended consequences. You mentioned cars. There is good evidence that people drive more recklessly because they think their car will save them. There is a very good chance the regulation you are talking about would cause more harm than good, simply because of the scale. You impose regulation on 120 million people to save 100 lives your risk vs reward is pretty far out there.
I hope my tone doesn't seem aggressive. I'm not trying to be. I just oppose making public safety decisions based on emotion and we are all full of emotion right now.

 

[Herzog]

So, ban old cars?

 

[Herzog]

Imma need Greg and Hickey to pass a background check for their assault trucks.

 

[nnnnnate]

I guess I'd argue that we all have life so good and easy today because of regulation. I'm sure people complained about seatbelts back in the day the same way we complain about DEF and start/stop tech and the other crap that comes on a new car. Some of that stuff stuck around and some of it went away and tech improved and efficiency increased.

I'm not suggesting increased gun regulation to simply stop the 100 or so school shooting deaths. There are a lot more deaths and violent crimes associated with guns than just school shootings. Obviously.

I would think that through attrition over the years with increased regulation maybe there would be less guns "in the wild" in 50 years. Same way we aren't banning old cars, there just aren't as many of them around now. Sure, some people still have them and some people have a lot of them but there are a lot less of them around in general.

As far as mag limits. Aren't there limits for hunts already? Like certain hunts you have to plug down to certain capacity? Im not a hunter so maybe I'm not remembering things right. Full auto guns aren't allowed for genpop but LEO still have full/select fire weapon access.

Why don't we require background checks for all gun sales and then implement the same provision Texas did for abortion care. Let private citizens sue those that aren't following the law?

 

[nnnnnate]

Imma need Greg and Hickey to pass a background check for their assault trucks.

Isn't that what a driver's license is?

 

[jeeper]

Nate,
Guns have in fact become safer. Especially in regards to accidents. Many guns have 2, 3, or even 4 fail safes to prevent an accidental discharge.
But just like your safer car, if intent is used to kill with it, all those safety features go away.

The problem with universal required background checks is that when grandpa died, and I took the guns out of his safe, I would be a criminal. I couldn’t give a gun to my own son without a background check.
Most gun sales already go through background checks. Maybe not here in utah, but nation wide for sure.

And in this particular situation, the guy DID go through background checks.

 

[Spork]

Isn't that what a driver's license is?

I got a fishing license... I don't think I've ever drove a fish. 😉

 

[Hickey]

My assault truck is definitely a violent thing to experience.


A "Silencer" has nothing to do with safety. It's actually called a sound suppressor. It doesn't silence anything. It's not like the movies portray. It's not whisper quiet. The law requiring us to get a tax stamp for a suppressor does in fact lead to hearing loss in a great number of individuals.

 

[Spork]

Even the gun grabber UK folks allow suppressors.The tax stamp for suppressors is stupid and ought to be removed.

Politicians don't have a clue about guns and legislate in ignorance and incompetence.

 

[nnnnnate]

No worries. Like I said at the start of this yesterday, it doesn't matter because nothing will change.