So there's this huge elephant in the living room...

[Greg]

Duh... the answer to our fuel issue is water. http://www.runyourcarwithwater.com/?hop=mrjim1

 

[soda blaster]

We have made a hydrogen generator before and actually ran a lawn mower on it for a little while it is just to hard to stabilize, just a sandwich baggy filled with the hydrogen made a very loud bang when exposed to a heat source.

 

[allterrain]

Has anybody here converted to natural gas? Utah has the cheapest cng prices in the country- right about .68/gal today. I would like some info. I have seen kits for $1500 or so for a V8.

 

[jamesgeologist]

I posted a few months ago about seeing if the mods or Greg would open up a subtopic or separate forum for fuel economy and alternative fuels. Practical applications and hands on experience through the eyes of the four wheeler. Certainly we have guys with propane experience and maybe a few CNG and ethanol guys as well. We could work our way, one bulletin board and a time, toward energy independence without the help of our government!! Except for the tax rebates on alternative fuels!!

James

 

[soda blaster]

CNG is nice but the space you need for tanks is crazy we have 1 van that has 2 tanks and gets a bout 100 miles between fill up of course those fill up only cost $6.00 but you have to know where to get cng at for sure.

 

[Meat_]

I haven't had time to read this thread yet (although Kurt and I talked a bit about it this weekend)... I'll read it tomorrow maybe, but I thought I would post this picture in the mean time.

 

[DToy]

Has anybody here converted to natural gas? Utah has the cheapest cng prices in the country- right about .68/gal today. I would like some info. I have seen kits for $1500 or so for a V8.

I've been wondering about a CNG conversion as well. If I could find a conversion kit for $1500 I might just give it a shot. If my math is right, at a cost of $.68/gallon for CNG vs. $3.50/gallon for Gas on an SUV that averages 15 mpg you would recoup the $1500 cost for the conversion in 7,978 miles. Seems pretty easy to make that pencil if in fact the conversion can be done that cheaply.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I think CNG has alot of prospects... but I've read and heard varying numbers for diminished performance... so while it may be the ticket for a large displacement rig, those with smaller displacement motors already lacking power might not benefit nearly as much (such as a Jeep 4.0 or a Toyota 22RE). I'd love to hear from someone that has put alot of miles in a converted rig though, how is the power loss?

 

[Tacoma]

Lots of fleets have sold off their CNG vehicles. May be worth noting. I drove a GMC 1500 that the city had, and it was kind of a pig, hard to say if that's the CNG or not though: city trucks aren't exactly... the uhmmmm gold standard for performance and upkeep.

 

[allterrain]

A few links for Toyota Propane stuff.
http://www.gotpropane.com/
http://www.msefi.com/index.php

Pirate Thread i just found:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=658796&highlight=cng

 

[snccoulter]

The Air Force is going away from CNG also. it was the cat meow for a while and now we put mogas in again. thank goodness for low octane gas again.

 

[RockMonkey]

SUV's are selling just fine still

An interesting article from CNN:
Americans are switching to smaller cars from SUVs

Some excerpts:
"Sales of large SUVs plummeted 28% in the first quarter this year, while subcompact sales rose 32%, according to Autodata Corp."
"SUV sales peaked at 3 million in 2003; they're expected to fall to half that number this year"
"Small cars are now the largest segment of the U.S. auto market, accounting for 18% of new car sales. Last year, U.S. consumers bought a record 2.8 million of them, and with sales up 4% in the first quarter this year, the record almost surely will be shattered."
"Now owners of SUVs and other gas guzzlers who've seen the price of a fill-up climb sharply are getting a second shock when they try to trade in their behemoths. Used car dealers don't want the big vehicles on their lots anymore because hardly anyone is buying them. Some won't take them at any price."

"Just fine" is a subjective term, but SUV sales are certainly nothing like they once were. Unfortunately once again US auto makers are far behind the curve and many consumers are forced to turn to imported vehicles to meet their needs. I know if my company's sales dropped 50% in 5 years we would not say our product is selling "just fine."

 

[mbryson]

An interesting article from CNN:
Americans are switching to smaller cars from SUVs

Some excerpts:
"Sales of large SUVs plummeted 28% in the first quarter this year, while subcompact sales rose 32%, according to Autodata Corp."
"SUV sales peaked at 3 million in 2003; they're expected to fall to half that number this year"
"Small cars are now the largest segment of the U.S. auto market, accounting for 18% of new car sales. Last year, U.S. consumers bought a record 2.8 million of them, and with sales up 4% in the first quarter this year, the record almost surely will be shattered."
"Now owners of SUVs and other gas guzzlers who've seen the price of a fill-up climb sharply are getting a second shock when they try to trade in their behemoths. Used car dealers don't want the big vehicles on their lots anymore because hardly anyone is buying them. Some won't take them at any price."

"Just fine" is a subjective term, but SUV sales are certainly nothing like they once were. Unfortunately once again US auto makers are far behind the curve and consumers are forced to turn to imported vehicles to meet their needs.

I wonder if SUVs will evolve back into SUVs again?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

..."Just fine" is a subjective term, but SUV sales are certainly nothing like they once were. Unfortunately once again US auto makers are far behind the curve and many consumers are forced to turn to imported vehicles to meet their needs. I know if my company's sales dropped 50% in 5 years we would not say our product is selling "just fine."

It is a very subjective term, but I can guarantee companies don't disintegrate their SUV lines... in fact Toyota has been doing very well with their SUV's (FJC for example that gets mid-high teens on the road).

You must have skipped my second portion

I'm by no means saying they are selling like they were in the late nineties early 2000's, they were selling beyond anyones expectations then. But even now people are buying big SUV's that flat out don't need them. How many of you can really justify owning an big SUV (families of 6+) or a large truck. Do you have to tow your play rig around to sustain life? I know for a fact that sales of SUV's have fallen in the last 2-3 years, but they are still selling at decent rate. There will be plenty that trade in their SUV for an econo car, but not enough to shift the market. The demand for net fuel is still as present as its ever been IMO

 

[RockMonkey]

I think we're on the same page. I just thought it was worth digging back up since I ran across some data.

In my case I already sold one SUV and bought a small, very efficient car. I couldn't be happier with it. Now we're seriously looking at trading our other SUV for another small, very efficient car. This seems to be a substantial trend nationwide. We will keep the truck for towing and hauling use. It's been driven less than 1,000 miles in the last 6 months. That will pick up a bit once we get the XJ finished.

 

[Cherokeester]

Ok, so the elephant just got bigger. $132.00 a barrel and no end in sight. All you super conservatives out there who say the government should not and cannot do anything, I want to hear your solution. What is going to stop this avalanche? $200.00 is just down the road and gas will be 6,7,8,9 or ten bucks a gallon.

Here is a price graph from Sept. 07. Look how much it has gone up since then.

 

[Corban_White]

I may get bashed but here goes. The short of it is we live in a free market economy (as much as the government will allow) and the simple economics of that are that the price will increase until the demand levels out. Or in other words, the price will go up until enough people stop buying that the oil companys aren't making as much money as they were when the price was a little lower. That is when the price will stop climbing. And don't anyone fool yourself by thinking that it is only or even mostly people driving their cars and trucks that make up the majority of oil consumers. I can think of almost NOTHING in our economy that doesn't use oil for its production and even fewer things that don't use it in their shipping. Almost everything we use is made from or with oil. And the few things that aren't are shipped using oil.


Now I got myself thinking.......can anybody think of anything that is produced (not shipped-just produced) without using oil?

 

[Kiel]

Produce and livestock

 

[Spork]

Now I got myself thinking.......can anybody think of anything that is produced (not shipped-just produced) without using oil?

:brett: (just saying)

Production is one thing, harvesting and shipping is another. I could raise cattle without oil but getting the meat off to the buyer might be an obstacle.

Oil companies are driving up prices because the cost to enter the industry is high. I'm sure there is more fear of government interference at this point than competition. (and the oil industry may point to them and say that is why the price is so high also). Allow more drilling off the coast, ANWAR, etc and you would see the cost go down. Diversification of vehicles would also change demand, Natural gas, propane, and the mythical electric car would all change demand for oil.

 

[Corban_White]

Produce and livestock

You could produce that for yourself/family without using oil but on even a small scale production you would need at the very least some electricity to run a freezer, grinder, saw, etc.