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Subaru Outbacks

TurboMinivan

TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
Rot Box said:
With all the engine covers off I looked around the head gaskets really good. And now I know where the oil was going... �� You have got to be freaking kidding me. Wonder how long it will take me you yank the engine out.
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Book labor times for head gasket replacement are based on removal of the engine. However, pretty much all of our techs can (and do) perform the job with the block remaining in the car (unless the specific situation dictates otherwise).

FYI
 
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Rot Box

Rot Box

Diesel and Dust
Location
Smithfield Utah
Thanks for the heads up. That would be great I was thinking there wasn't enough room in there. I'll probably change both of them to be safe.

Any thoughts on gaskets? I'm hearing Subaru head gaskets (apparently they have good ones now) are the way to go and although it might be overkill I'm really considering spending a bit more for ARP studs (would require engine removal I assume).
 
Greg

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
Admin
Location
Grand Junction, CO
Rot Box said:
... With all the engine covers off I looked around the head gaskets really good. And now I know where the oil was going... You have got to be freaking kidding me. Wonder how long it will take me you yank the engine out.

I have no one to blame but myself. Doh!!
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Damn! Now I feel bad about posting that Subaru/Headgasket meme! :guilty:
 
thefirstzukman

thefirstzukman

Finding Utah
Supporting Member
Location
SPANISH FORK, UTAH
TurboMinivan said:
Book labor times for head gasket replacement are based on removal of the engine. However, pretty much all of our techs can (and do) perform the job with the block remaining in the car (unless there are extenuating circumstances).

FYI
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Done a ton of Subaru Head gaskets and would never even think of doing them in the car, That's crazy!! too much risk for me, I would hate to have to do the job twice.

Rot Box said:
Thanks for the heads up. That would be great I was thinking there wasn't enough room in there. I'll probably change both of them to be safe.

Any thoughts on gaskets? I'm hearing Subaru head gaskets (apparently they have good ones now) are the way to go and although it might be overkill I'm really considering spending a bit more for ARP studs (would require engine removal I assume).
Click to expand...

I buy every thing off of Rock Auto for them (or used too) Pull the engine and do them both, have the heads machined and check the block halves, its worth taking the time while you have it out. You need to do new head bolts anyway so studs is an option that wont cost much more, sealed power bolts are just under $100. Never had any problems with the Fel-Pro head set, for about $150.00..


I love Subarus, I have a 2001 Forester I bought for my son to drive after his mission. I think they are great cars... But almost every Subaru we bought at auction we had to pull the motor before we put it up for sale, it didn't matter what year or condition..... People keep them until they have an issue and then they sell them.. Probably went through 50 subarus over 3 years selling them at the dealership I was a part of.

Best advice is buy a good wobble 14mm impact socket and remember it really is an awesome car.
 
TurboMinivan

TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
thefirstzukman said:
Done a ton of Subaru Head gaskets and would never even think of doing them in the car, That's crazy!! too much risk for me, I would hate to have to do the job twice.
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Hence my part about the specific situation dictating otherwise. If there is reason to pull the block, they'll pull it. If not, they won't. I rarely see these guys needing to re-do a gasket job.

(EDIT: I do not think that word means what I thought it meant.)
 
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Rot Box

Rot Box

Diesel and Dust
Location
Smithfield Utah
Greg said:
Damn! Now I feel bad about posting that Subaru/Headgasket meme! :guilty:
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Nah, It makes it even funnier. It's like the first time (and last time) I held the spark plug wire on a lawn mower while somebody else pulled on the cord. I knew exactly what was gaining to happen... but... but I did it anyway :ugh: :eek:
 
Rot Box

Rot Box

Diesel and Dust
Location
Smithfield Utah
Thanks for the help you guys. My wife called a friend of hers (an auto mechanic) and took some notes. I guess he's done a lot of these over the years as well. He said it's sixes whether to leave the engine in place or pull it. He much preferred to leave them in place, but his co-worker insisted on pulling them. He recommended adjusting the valve lash while I'm at it---good thinking.

Agh.. I dunno. One concern I have with pulling the engine is the AC. I really don't want to discharge it and refill it unless I have to. Not that it's hard it just adds a bit more to the cost. It doesn't look like I can just push the AC pump aside leaving everything attached.. If the engine had 200k instead of 100k I'd definitely pull it just to replace all the other seals and gaskets.

I'll figure something out. Gonna keep pulling crap off the engine and see how far I get.
 
Rot Box

Rot Box

Diesel and Dust
Location
Smithfield Utah
The heads are off! Working alone it took me 3.5 hours to get them both off the engine and onto the work bench. Would have taken a bit longer but I already had the timing belt components removed. I could not make up my mind on whether or not to remove the engine. I left it in and everything went pretty smooth. My biggest worry with leaving the engine in place is possibly damaging the new seal when I try to put the head back on :-\

Some notes:

Didn't have to open any AC lines--yay! I zip tied the AC pump out of the way where the battery would normally be.

The head bolts SUCKED to unthread because they're three miles long. A small 90º air wrench would have been great here. I backed them out with a ratchet. Then once they were out enough I finished removing them with a ratcheting end wrench.

It's nice having everything on top of the engine. I climbed under once and that was to remove the exhaust (which conveniently drops out of the way).

Spark plugs were burned down to the porcelain :ugh: I'm sure they are the original plugs should I be concerned? Pistons had some little white spots on them along with the normal carbon buildup. Cylinders look brand new.

Not sure if I should have the heads re-surfaced. I think the gaskets were leaking because Subaru uses crappy gaskets.. it was leaking oil not coolant anyway. Thoughts? Recommendations?

Going to order Six Star gaskets and new bolts from AWDA. They seem to have the best reviews and a greatly improved gasket design: https://allwheeldriveauto.com/product/2005-2009-subaru-legacy-or-outback-2-5l-sohc-head-gasket-kit/



Gravy said:
Just curious: I've heard the 2.5 has two iterations: timing belt and timing chain. Is this right? And which years have which?
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Not sure on that one. There's two versions of the 2.5 like mine (phase 1 and 2). I know they used this motor up to 09 (maybe longer) and it uses a belt.
 
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TurboMinivan

TurboMinivan

Still plays with cars
Location
Lehi, UT
Gravy said:
Just curious: I've heard the 2.5 has two iterations: timing belt and timing chain. Is this right? And which years have which?
Click to expand...

The 2.5L engine was recently completely redesigned--different bore and stroke, plus many more changes. The old design was a SOHC belt-driven setup; the new design is a DOHC chain-driven design. The Forester got the new engine for 2011, but the Outback did not get it until the 2013 model year.
 
Rot Box

Rot Box

Diesel and Dust
Location
Smithfield Utah
Would you guys run these? There's some light pitting in the alum. Feels smooth, can't catch a fingernail or razor on it. The ocd side of me says have them surfaced. The I'm already sick of working on this pos side of me says clean the up a little more and throw them on..

IMG_3316_zpstlhxsbws.jpg


IMG_3317-2_zps48wxcoez.jpg
 
Greg

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
Admin
Location
Grand Junction, CO
Really hard to judge from pics, but IMO you're probably better off getting an option from a machine shop. See what they say, if they give you the OK to run them as-is then you know for certain. I wouldn't want to take the project of new head gaskets this far, then put it back together without knowing if it is good for another 100k miles.

I'm way impressed that you've already tore the engine down! :eek:
 
Rot Box

Rot Box

Diesel and Dust
Location
Smithfield Utah
Thanks Greg. I just tried some acetone on it and now it looks like a new head. Probably should have a shop look at it for safe measure.

Yeah I'm chipping away at it in the mornings before work. I have to remember to pace myself though or it starts getting annoying.
 
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