Toyota steering knuckle leak

[backwoodsgoop]

Quotes

the first post theory #1 is by a fellow by the handle Idaho Doug, from what I gathered on the internet a individual that worked at Toyota at the corporate level, In the quoted post you read that he states that the Birfield joint resides in a seperate chamber in the knucle assemlby which is simply not the case, as you read further some how if the axle seal fails then the "Birfield will be running in oil" some how the oil but not the grease can get inside this supposed seperate chamber. I am one off many , many ignorant mechanics that can look at this design and see that its meant for more of a fluid lube.

therory # 2
Is an article written by Steve Turchet at militaryvehicles@krause.com intittled MV Knuckle service I attempted to post the article in its entirety but it was to many words. I would suggest that you read it. I have sent him the info I have gathered.

Therory #3

Is a posting on actionjackson that I found while looking into this, From the photo I can clearly see the characteristics of the semi fluid lube in the intitailly factory fill wereas the misdiagnosis was that it was moly wheel bearing grease mixed with gear oil

I should have pointed this out earlier as far as the authors of these posts
a oversight.

And as far as theory # 1 if some body calls mechanics ignorant for putting lube in these plugs when thats is exactly what its there for then full on !!

And yes I have been banned from ih8mudd and yota tech and pirate but I got to the bottom of this and if you dont like it to bad. I have been in contact with a operation down there in Utah by the name of Novak adapt
maybee you have heard of them. And it just so happens that hopefully soon they will have a product available on thier website.

 

[solidfrontaxle]

And yes I have been banned from ih8mudd and yota tech and pirate

Nice! :greg:

You were banned from 'mud because you clearly don't know what you're talking about. You are spreading misinformation so that you can make a buck.

Toyota axles are not the same as landrover axles and are not meant to be treated as such. Why in the world would toyota design their axles for a different kind of lube than they specify in every FSM? There is nothing wrong with the design, specifications, or lube. Seals wear out, they need to be replaced. End of story.

Sorry, but the people here, much like the people on other 4x4 forums are smart enough not to run out and buy your lube because of your weird claims and nonsensical rambling.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

You were banned from 'mud because you clearly don't know what you're talking about. You are spreading misinformation so that you can make a buck.

And I see it coming here shortly too!

Toyota axles are not the same as landrover axles and are not meant to be treated as such. Why in the world would toyota design their axles for a different kind of lube than they specify in every FSM? There is nothing wrong with the design, specifications, or lube. Seals wear out, they need to be replaced. End of story.

Exactly!

Sorry, but the people here, much like the people on other 4x4 forums are smart enough not to run out and buy your lube because of your weird claims and nonsensical rambling.

x2

 

[cruiseroutfit]

the first post theory #1 is by a fellow by the handle Idaho Doug, from what I gathered on the internet a individual that worked at Toyota at the corporate level, In the quoted post you read that he states that the Birfield joint resides in a seperate chamber in the knucle assemlby which is simply not the case, as you read further some how if the axle seal fails then the "Birfield will be running in oil" some how the oil but not the grease can get inside this supposed seperate chamber. I am one off many , many ignorant mechanics that can look at this design and see that its meant for more of a fluid lube.

You are ignorant. There is no way the felt and rubber wipers were desinged to keep in a viscous lube, its been tried, its failed over and over. Every Toyota document, service bulletin, service manual and factory built axle has been packed with grease in the birf cavity (knuckle) and viscouse gear lube in the diff housing. Pure and simple. You can tell all your mechanic buddy's they are wrong. Take it from a fellow mechanic who happens to have been inside of hundreds of Land Cruiser axles.

Is an article written by Steve Turchet at militaryvehicles@krause.com intittled MV Knuckle service I attempted to post the article in its entirety but it was to many words. I would suggest that you read it. I have sent him the info I have gathered.

As soon as Steve writes an article specific to the Toyota axle, then I'll consider it as applicable, until then it is apples & oranges. Many full-float rear axles use gear lube for the rear bearings, again while similar looking the Toyota is different, instead running an inner axle seal and specifying a grease be used for the bearing and bearing cavity.

Is a posting on actionjackson that I found while looking into this, From the photo I can clearly see the characteristics of the semi fluid lube in the intitailly factory fill wereas the misdiagnosis was that it was moly wheel bearing grease mixed with gear oil

Wrong again, I have pulled down 100% factory axles, some with very low mileage. Guess what, just like every bit of Toyota's documentation, they came with a moly grease in the knuckle. Amazing eh.

...And as far as theory # 1 if some body calls mechanics ignorant for putting lube in these plugs when thats is exactly what its there for then full on !!

No, just as every Toyota document has insisted since day one, it is an inspection plug.

And yes I have been banned from ih8mudd and yota tech and pirate but I got to the bottom of this and if you dont like it to bad. I have been in contact with a operation down there in Utah by the name of Novak adapt
maybee you have heard of them. And it just so happens that hopefully soon they will have a product available on thier website.

And I know for a fact the smart gents up at Novak (Ken being a LC owner himself) will not advertise your product for use to replace the specified GREASE inside of a knuckle. Sorry, your a moron!

 

[backwoodsgoop]

crusier outfitter

Read the instuctions that came with your special service tool to center the knuckle. The last page of the instuction the seals are reffered to as oil seals.

Read the patents on drive and non driven steering axles you will find that manufactures will use a semi fliud lube. Why because it lasts longer.

Gmc used the enclosed knuckle diff. They use the fill plug for adding lube

Ford used the enclosed knuckle diff. They use the fill plug for adding 1/2 pint of the " Proper lube" a fliud measurement.

International used the enclosed knuckle diff. They use the fill plug to add 38 oz of viscous lube. again a fluid measurement.

Dodge used the enclosed knucle differential. They use the fill plug to add what they term a "short Fiber grease"

Jeep One of the first rigs to use this differential fill thru the fill plug. A #0 or #1 sodium based grease in the # 0 form it is a semi fluid

Land and Range rovers use the enclosed knuckle diff and use a semi-fluid grease.

And Finally Toyota uses the same differential and the fill plug is used only to inspect the level of grease?
a NILG # 2 a moly grease. well when you say moly grease your only describing a 3-5% ingredient of grease

What and who you have to thank for all of this is Toyota who told me that under Toyota warranty a different lube was required. I requested some.
Told ,I could get it thru thier parts department over the phone the next day they where anable to find it. Upon further visits I was told that there was some Sort of "privacy act"

This was my first overhaul of a Toyota enclosed knuckle. I identified the lube as what I had seen before in other automotive applications ie a viscous coupler. If they would have sold me this lube I woudnt have thought twice what it was just carried on much like the crasy lube I purchaced From Merecedes for axles I rebuilt.

Yes and stop this gravy train and let me on it. Up to 600 bucks per side for a glorified wheel bearing pack !! and I got a line on the proper lube.

 

[Rot Box]

Read the instuctions that came with your special service tool to center the knuckle. The last page of the instuction the seals are reffered to as oil seals.

Read the patents on drive and non driven steering axles you will find that manufactures will use a semi fliud lube. Why because it lasts longer.

Gmc used the enclosed knuckle diff. They use the fill plug for adding lube

Ford used the enclosed knuckle diff. They use the fill plug for adding 1/2 pint of the " Proper lube" a fliud measurement.

International used the enclosed knuckle diff. They use the fill plug to add 38 oz of viscous lube. again a fluid measurement.

Dodge used the enclosed knucle differential. They use the fill plug to add what they term a "short Fiber grease"

Jeep One of the first rigs to use this differential fill thru the fill plug. A #0 or #1 sodium based grease in the # 0 form it is a semi fluid

Land and Range rovers use the enclosed knuckle diff and use a semi-fluid grease.

And Finally Toyota uses the same differential and the fill plug is used only to inspect the level of grease?
a NILG # 2 a moly grease. well when you say moly grease your only describing a 3-5% ingredient of grease

What and who you have to thank for all of this is Toyota who told me that under Toyota warranty a different lube was required. I requested some.
Told ,I could get it thru thier parts department over the phone the next day they where anable to find it. Upon further visits I was told that there was some Sort of "privacy act"

This was my first overhaul of a Toyota enclosed knuckle. I identified the lube as what I had seen before in other automotive applications ie a viscous coupler. If they would have sold me this lube I woudnt have thought twice what it was just carried on much like the crasy lube I purchaced From Merecedes for axles I rebuilt.

Yes and stop this gravy train and let me on it. Up to 600 bucks per side for a glorified wheel bearing pack !! and I got a line on the proper lube.

You cannot compare the Toyota 8" to anything stated above. The closed knuckle Dana axles used in all the domestics you mentioned the 80 series and the LR axles differ in many ways. Its completely irrevelvant to the situation at hand.

Oregon ordered new seals to fix his problem end of story. Keep using your "proper lube" and the rest of us will keep using what we have been for years. No offence but you aren't making any friends here with that sort of attitude and wording...

 

[1adam12]

make sure to get the marlin install tool as well

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Read the instuctions that came with your special service tool to center the knuckle. The last page of the instuction the seals are reffered to as oil seals.

Yes, to keep the gear OIL and the grease from mixing.

Read the patents on drive and non driven steering axles you will find that manufactures will use a semi fliud lube. Why because it lasts longer.

Gmc used the enclosed knuckle diff. They use the fill plug for adding lube

Ford used the enclosed knuckle diff. They use the fill plug for adding 1/2 pint of the " Proper lube" a fliud measurement.

International used the enclosed knuckle diff. They use the fill plug to add 38 oz of viscous lube. again a fluid measurement.

Dodge used the enclosed knucle differential. They use the fill plug to add what they term a "short Fiber grease"

Jeep One of the first rigs to use this differential fill thru the fill plug. A #0 or #1 sodium based grease in the # 0 form it is a semi fluid

Land and Range rovers use the enclosed knuckle diff and use a semi-fluid grease.

How many different times on different forums do you need to be told. It doesn't matter what X company is doing. Toyota has specified otherwise since day one and seeing as none of their components are the same as the ones you've referenced, I see no correlation.

And Finally Toyota uses the same differential and the fill plug is used only to inspect the level of grease?

What do you mean them use the same differential? They are NOT the same as any of the models you referenced. And yes, per every Toyota document, Toyota mechanic and Toyota protocol that hole has been for inspection ONLY. If it were a fill plug they would have have made it the size of all the other fill plugs on the rest of the vehicle that happen to be 100% the same, instead this one is much smaller. The knuckle had the room for a larger plug, it also had the room for a drain plug. If they wanted to use a viscous fluid that could be drained they would have included a way to drain it. Defacto they did, all fluid and it WILL drain out of the felt/rubber wipers. I see it ALL THE TIME! They will not hold fluid.

What and who you have to thank for all of this is Toyota who told me that under Toyota warranty a different lube was required. I requested some.
Told ,I could get it thru thier parts department over the phone the next day they where anable to find it. Upon further visits I was told that there was some Sort of "privacy act"

What special lube? Look at the FSM and purchase the specified lube products from a qualified source (which would NOT be you). It does NOT say to use a Toyota product and just because you talked to some yahoo at a Toyota dealer doesn't lend any credibility to your case. They haven't been consistently working on solid axles for 10+ years, its no surprise to me at all that they don't know all the specifics first hand.

This was my first overhaul of a Toyota enclosed knuckle. I identified the lube as what I had seen before in other automotive applications ie a viscous coupler. If they would have sold me this lube I woudnt have thought twice what it was just carried on much like the crasy lube I purchaced From Merecedes for axles I rebuilt.

So next your going to suggest that a viscous fluid be used inside of CV boots too LOL

Yes and stop this gravy train and let me on it. Up to 600 bucks per side for a glorified wheel bearing pack !! and I got a line on the proper lube.

Take it to a shop that knows what they are doing. For $600 you can get a complete knuckle overhaul, with the correct parts and fluid and not worry about your axle for another 30 years.

I'm done listening to your backwoods-logic, you have admittedly zero experience in the Toyota axles and yet you continue to bill yourself off as the pro so you can fence some miracle oil.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Since we need to get the crayons out for you.

Toyota LC Factory Service Manual - 1968 - 40/45 Series
"Pack the steering knuckle with multipurpose grease to about 3/4 of the interior area"

Oh guess what, they call the inner wheel bearing seal aka the "Hub Seal" an "oil seal too", seeing as oil is a very amiguous term and doesn't specify what viscosity would be used. However seeing as they call it an "oil seal" are you suggesting that the wheel bearings be bathed in a viscous lube ie a 80-90w and that the wheel seal and the paper hub gaskets should hold that fluid in? I'm just trying to use your logic here.

Moving on here...

Toyota LC Factory Service Manual - 1988 - 60 Series
"Pack Molybdenum disulphide lithium base grease into the knuckle to about three fourths of the knuckle"

So in the last 20 years they didn't decide to change their mind LOL

But lets keep going...
Toyota LC Factory Service Manual - 1983 - 80 Series:
"Pack Molybdenum disulphide lithium base grease into the knuckle to about three fourths of the knuckle"

So in the last 40 years the only thing Toyota has clarified is the type of grease to use. Never did their engineers intend for viscous fluid to be used in the knuckles, or the wheel bearings, or the full-float rear axles.. or anywhere not specified by all their years of documentation.

So about the "fill plug" on the knuckle that Toyota intended for inspection and maintainence. Here is what they have to say about that.

"Remove the screw plug from each knuckle and top off with lubricant. Steering knuckle grease: Molybdenum disulphide lithium base chassis grease (NLGI No. 2). Reinstall two screw plugs"

So again, they are NOT made to fill, they are made to inspect and top off... using grease.

There is no need for me to respond further, I've laid out everything for you over and over and you still can't seem to comprehend it. Fill your customers knuckles full of fluid, sell them your miracle lube... they will be calling me when they need a new knuckle rebuild kit because their wiper seals are saturated with grease and they have to destroy all the paper seals to fix the ass backwards work you do lol

 

[backwoodsgoop]

Crusier Outfitter

The Toyota Frt axle is the nearly identical to the Dana.
Dana sold the rights to Toyota to build this differential
so close of a replication parts are interchangable Toyota changed very little from the orignal design one of them being the location of the Fill plug from more of a static level to 3/4 or better on the housing. Reason being and a good idea to ensure the entire seal stays wet .

If you were to look around in more than Toyota information you will be enlightened.

It may have been the first Toyota enclosed knuckle that I repaired but what I didnt mention is what I have been doing in the auto trade for 20 years now. But I dont need to If you get your head out of the Toyota sand and look around you may learn a thing or two about this here differential.

 

[bryson]

I heart Kurt.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Dana sold the rights to Toyota to build this differential

Prove it, show me someplace that Toyota bought any rights. They might have copied the design and changed it to meet their needs, changes of which include designing it to run grease. But they did NOT use a Dana carbon copy design. Sorry pal, the collective knowledge of the lemming off-spring of one Toyota engineer, far surpasses the mechanical background you have related to these axles. We are not talking about a single FSM error or a single engineer that wanted things his way, your suggesting that 50 years of Toyota engineering straight from the top have been wrong, and that thousands of factory trained mechanics have had the fleece pulled over their heads while doing it all 'wrong', and furthermore that hundreds of thousands of Toyota owners have been rooked by this backwards logic. Sorry brother, the only thing backwards here is your thinking. Fill the damn knuckles full of lube, and watch it all drain through the felt and rubber on a warm day LOL.

so close of a replication parts are interchangable Toyota changed very little from the orignal design one of them being the location of the Fill plug from more of a static level to 3/4 or better on the housing. Reason being and a good idea to ensure the entire seal stays wet .

So show me what parts are interchangeable. I've never heard of one and having seen the inside of both, I'm very doubtful of your assumption. Even if they were interchangeable the fact remains that Toyota Engineers made the call to run grease and that has proven sucsessful for 40+ years. Dana on the other hand dropped that style of axle 20+ years ago, maybe because they couldn't get theirs to stop leaking all the fluid out lol

If you were to look around in more than Toyota information you will be enlightened.

Where should I look? I've got a dozen plus FSM's, years of my practical experience and the first hand things I have seen out of low mileage (under 20k in cases) axles that were factory equipped with grease.

It may have been the first Toyota enclosed knuckle that I repaired but what I didnt mention is what I have been doing in the auto trade for 20 years now. But I dont need to If you get your head out of the Toyota sand and look around you may learn a thing or two about this here differential.

What differential? We are talking about knuckles?? Not differentials? Your logic and reasoning is all over the board. Let me explain one thing to you, I don't give an f**k about the other crap you have worked on, in fact I'm just glad your not fixing vehicles I drive next to on the road each day. I work on Toyota's, I drive Toyota's and I sell Toyota parts... not to be close minded but your 'expertise' is wasted here just as it has been on the rest of the forums that told you to STFU.

Do you think your brilliant for coming up with this new theory? It is not new and in fact other dumb-asses have tried it themselves. Search mud as it has been brought up about every other year by some joe-schmoe expert like yourself that has grease under his fingernails and came up with an idea over a spam sandwich with your lube buddy Herb. I hate to come across as thinking you are a lackless moron, but both your comprehenstion and logic leave me with no other thought train. The odd thing is you seem to not get it where as the others eventually did. In some cases they had to get the oil absorb out to clean up the mess on their customers driveway,

 

[solidfrontaxle]

The Toyota Frt axle is the nearly identical to the Dana.
Dana sold the rights to Toyota to build this differential
so close of a replication parts are interchangable Toyota changed very little from the orignal design one of them being the location of the Fill plug from more of a static level to 3/4 or better on the housing. Reason being and a good idea to ensure the entire seal stays wet .

If you were to look around in more than Toyota information you will be enlightened.

It may have been the first Toyota enclosed knuckle that I repaired but what I didnt mention is what I have been doing in the auto trade for 20 years now. But I dont need to If you get your head out of the Toyota sand and look around you may learn a thing or two about this here differential.

Based on your levels of automotive experience, I got to thinking. Well, I did some research and it turns out you are right. There WAS (and still is) a vast Toyota axle conspiracy. I can't belive the extent of the coverup that the company has gone to conceal the correct lubricant that they designed for their knuckles.

I have now torn down all my knuckles and removed the grease. Where can I get some of your backwoods goop to pour into the hole on the top of my knuckles?

Also, while I have everything torn aprart, should I throw away my Toyota wheel bearings and use the ones meant for a Dana 44?

 

[cruiseroutfit]

I heart Kurt.

I've really been thinking you or Carl had set me up with some moron just to keep me breathing today. Like when I get random 4x4 calls and I tell them to call Teraflex

Seriously though, this guy has heard all the same logic on various forums yet insists he is right after ONE Toyota axle rebuild under his big belt

 

[backwoodsgoop]

Article by Steve Turchet

Cruiser ouffit The article by Steve Turchet evedently you didnt read it. He does in fact refer to a Toyota pick -up. Keep in mind here I am not stating to use 80-90w as a lube It is a #0 sodiumbased lube read up on it and you will know why vehicle manufactures use it in this application including Toyota. You had to have seen it but you have been brainwashed into thinking its moly grease. Talk to you local grease specialist, Find out what "moly" actually is.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Based on your levels of automotive experience, I got to thinking. Well, I did some research and it turns out you are right. There WAS (and still is) a vast Toyota axle conspiracy. I can't belive the extent of the coverup that the company has gone to conceal the correct lubricant that they designed for their knuckles.

I have now torn down all my knuckles and removed the grease. Where can I get some of your backwoods goop to pour into the hole on the top of my knuckles?

Also, while I have everything torn aprart, should I throw away my Toyota wheel bearings and use the ones meant for a Dana 44?

Wyatt, even going public admitting something like that could get you on a 'grease lubrication industry' hit-list. Do you know how many 80-90w engineers and salesman have been killed trying to expose this same coverup? You are insane buddy, keep this stuff under your hat my freind.

PS, Hoffa was trying to sell 80-90w to wheel bearing shops when he was gunned down and turned into a Lithium based grease. His remains are living contently INSIDE the knuckles of hundreds of lemming Toyota owners, unsuspecting of course.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Cruiser ouffit The article by Steve Turchet evedently you didnt read it. He does in fact refer to a Toyota pick -up. Keep in mind here I am not stating to use 80-90w as a lube It is a #0 sodiumbased lube read up on it and you will know why vehicle manufactures use it in this application including Toyota. You had to have seen it but you have been brainwashed into thinking its moly grease. Talk to you local grease specialist, Find out what "moly" actually is.

I'm an engineer, I know exactly what moly is.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Just to clear things up.

Are you selling product that you think should be installed inside of these knuckles?

 

[backwoodsgoop]

Okay on the wheel bearings

No need to chuck the wheel bearings but the upper and lower trunion bearings sure use a Timken out of a Jeep part # 3030 It has a steeper thrust angle which gives it a better load cababilty than the Toyo Koyo.

 

[backwoodsgoop]

what is moly?

well please tell us then cruiser outfitter engineer molybedendite