Webserver - anyone know how to?

[Caleb]

That might be an option, but to me that is nothing more than having someone else host it for you. Still have limited control over it. But then you would have a dedicated server.... To my knowledge, I'm currently sharing a server with another website. I know who it is, I refferred him He's VERY happy with them!!!!

what do you think co-locating is??? all it is is renting space...and using someone else's bandwidth...

 

[waynehartwig]

so...
50KB x 20 images = a shade under 1MB add in the other overhead of the web page, comunications back and forth you are over 1MB per hit

798 average... 13 hits a minute.... 13~14MB a minute average = 112Mb/minute = 1.8Mb/second

Now that is your average, you have to take your maximum and then add some saftey margin to it..... you still want to host it on a DSL line?

Yes....

The images could stand to be 'lightened' anyway. I honestly didn't know they were that big. Well, obviously I KNEW, but I didn't. Make sense? I want my pages under 100k, not 1 meg. Not everyone has high speed internet, and I would like for my pages to load on dial up in under 2-3 seconds.

I hope you'all don't think you are talking to a wall... I appreciate the thoughts in trying to talk me out of it, because it gives me perspective on what problems I might encounter, so it's all being noted. Just know that you won't talk me out of hosting it myself.

 

[troutbum]

just curious if you can't set it up, how are you going to support it?

 

[my4thjeep]

Hosting a site at home is a lot of work and can be a lot of money. It can be done so don't think of this as a don't do it. There are other problems and expenses to think about. Power is an issue. You will want a battery back up and generator that will run the system(s) when power is down or during brown outs. Utah power does not have 99.9% up time.

Cooling is also an issue when webservers get a lot of traffic. A dedicated room with AC is important for best performance. Is the wife going to want the house at 68 degrees in the winter?

DSL isn't going to have the bandwidth for growing your site. You will be limited with how many similtanious connections it can support. Other options may be wireless connections like www.rapidwave.com which give you non nat ip addresses and higher throughput than dsl. Remember that your website will be up only as much as your internet connection and power. Because of these limitations and not being able to have redundant systems I out source all of my hosting.

My day job (www.sundanceresort.com) hosts with Verio. They have offices locally so I like supporting them. We use a Virtual Private Server. I have 100% control of it. Its $100 a month. I can install any app I want and host as many databases as I want. Its a linux box but windows boxes are available. Sundance doesn't host their own box because even with 3 T1's we cannot be up 99.9%. The T's go down every few months especially in the winter. Utah Power is even worse. Our power goes out several times a week. All systems are on on battery back up and generator power that comes online with in 3 seconds. The systems are also in an air conditioned room.

My side projects I host on several different low cost solutions. Ipowerweb.com $7.95 a month or DotEasy.com $25 a year or $100 a year both include domain name registration. Non of these 3 services have ever been down since I started using them. 0 down time in 5 years. I can guarantee you won't get that at home.

These are just a few things to consider. It sounds like you want 99.9% uptime (thats only being down 8.75 minutes a year), if thats the case I would think hard about hosting it at home.

Don't get me wrong I have hosted several boxes at my house just none that were making me money only hobby and testing servers. I like Redhad and Suse running Apache and MySql

 

[Meat_]

..I hope you'all don't think you are talking to a wall... I appreciate the thoughts in trying to talk me out of it, because it gives me perspective on what problems I might encounter, so it's all being noted. Just know that you won't talk me out of hosting it myself.

In that case, how about setting up your server at home and keeping your current host for a month or so as a back up for when ( ) your home hosting has a hiccup

 

[Rusted]

Here are a few things I have ran into with home hosting. I actually run 4 or 5 sites from my house right now using a comcast line that gets 6000 down, and 384 up. Each of my sites are very low usage, so bandwidth is not an issue. At one time I had my wifes site running on that server as well. It is running an online forum and would get up to 20 people using it at the same time. I never had any comments about speed being slow.

The pain came in when Comcast would change my IP address. They would not give me a dedicated IP address, so every once in a while it would change, and it would take 24-48 hours to update my DNS once I found the problem and waited for it to propigate. During that time email could not be delivered either. Also Comcast has been very stable, but the past 3-4 months there has been some outages in my area. Nothing that I would complain about, but my wife and her forum friends did not like having the site down for any time, the users did find it frustrating.

I would also have the occasional issue with my 1 year old pushing buttons and turning the server off, power went out for a short time at my house, those type of issues.

I think you should try to host it from home since this is not your primary family income. Web hosting will become a part time hobby for you. Don't forget that you will need an email solution as well if you are using your domains for email. For my lower priority sites it has been perfect, for my wife's site I ended up moving it to another server that is in a better place.

 

[waynehartwig]

Currently I'm paid through early October with my current host. So my intention is to get my server up and start using it, with my current host as a backup. Co location if you will.... That makes them both redundant and I can set it up to replicate every ? however many minutes or even when something changes. That also gives me over 2 months to experiment with hosting at home to see if I even continue, upgrade my line, whatever...

As for an IP, I already have a static IP, so that won't change and I won't have to deal with dynamic ones. Also, FYI, there are companies out there that have a program that keeps 'talking' between your server and the DNS and when your server IP changes, it automatically fixes the DNS, without any down time. Not exactly sure how it works, I just know the BASIC basics of it. I believe it's called simple DNS.

As for email, I will also need to setup up a mail server along with the web server. I'm even thinking about doing my own DNS server, but that probably won't happen. There are too many companies out there that will do that for free now days.

As for maintaining it, it's software, nothing will go wrong unless something is changed. I'm not a 'tweaker', so I won't be the one to make it go down. Generally speaking. And *IF* I am changing something, I always make a backup of the entire site before I even start, so I can put it back if I screw it up. And yes, that is a voice of experience! My website has been up since October. October through January I made a *LOT* of changes - completely new website, ecommerce, forum, picture gallery, etc. Over the past 6 months, I can't think of anything I have changed. I currently have it setup to make a back up of the entire site (root directories and etc) twice a day. I'm sure my hosting company loves the extra proccessor power I take for that! And I keep it for a week. This backup is stored off site, just in case the hosting company goes belly up, fries, whatever, I have it here at my house on a RAID5. That includes all of my SQL databases as well.

 

[Meat_]

...Also, FYI, there are companies out there that have a program that keeps 'talking' between your server and the DNS and when your server IP changes, it automatically fixes the DNS....

Many routers will do this as well.

 

[Caleb]

Many routers will do this as well.

they'll do it with select companies...I have a simple script running that checks and updates every 15 mins (I could do it as often as I want, every second if I wish)...changing your IP should not take you down while it re-populates...ip changes are imediate, if you change your actual name servers then it takes time to re-populate...mine has never taken more than a few hours though (usually over night)

good luck with your setup wayne...if you're up for a challenge (which it sounds like you are) then hosting at home is sweet...I can transfer gigs of music in no time at all from my desktop to my server, if I were to try adn do the same to my host it would take for ever (and who knows how often it may stop for unknown reasons). Personally though, I would set it up your self...like you said, you have some time. Setting up most that stuff can be done in less than a day easy...I have never done anything with certificates but other than that I have done all you are asking and its pretty easy to do. Also, this way you can admin your setup yourself and KNOW what you are doing. You know we'll always answer (or try to ) your questions if you have any.

 

[waynehartwig]

Thank you! A friend of mine that knows how to do it, knows my abilities, and says that I wouldn't have any trouble doing it myself. But I'm kind of in the mindset of that I dont' have the time to learn now. I want to get it up and running sooner than later so I can see if this is goign to work or not before my time expires with my hosting company. You know? But there is nothing that says I can't attempt it while I find someone that can do it. Heck, maybe I'll have it done before then!

As for the certificate, they (the issuing company) has step by step directions on their website as well as 24x7 (I think) support. So I dont' think that will be a problem.

I have a question though... How many IP's will I need to host a web server, email server and possibly DNS? Basically how many will I need to do everything on 1-3 PC's (2 of them will be redundant). I have the static IP that comes with the DSL line - is that all I will need? What IP do I assign the PC's? Am I making sense?

 

[Caleb]

I have a question though... How many IP's will I need to host a web server, email server and possibly DNS? Basically how many will I need to do everything on 1-3 PC's (2 of them will be redundant). I have the static IP that comes with the DSL line - is that all I will need? What IP do I assign the PC's? Am I making sense?

All you need is one IP. You can set it up however you want as far as the servers go. What happens (in the "For Dummies" version) is say someone goes to your site, that makes a request to your IP on port 80. Port 80 is assigned as HTTP by default. You can set it up so its ran on different ports if you wish but its not necessary. Then you assign from your router where port 80 is directed to (what internal IP), the request gets routed there and the machine knows how to handle an HTTP request. SMTP by default uses port 25, POP uses 110, FTP is 21-22 (I think, can't remember for sure), SSH is 20. Those are the main ones you will prolly deal with. You can run them on the same machine or on different machines. The obvious disadvantage to using the same machine is if you loose your server for whatever reason (hardware failure) you will now not be able to get mail and your site will be down. If you put them on different machines then if the web server goes down you will still have mail (and vice versa). Of course the obvious disadvantage to that is cost, however it doesn't take much machine to run a mail server (especially if thats all its doing). If you're still confused post up and I'll try to explain a little more...in short its where a nice router comes into play

EDIT: read your question again and I dont think I fully answered it, basically your static IP gets assigned to your router and your router will assign the local machines local (or private) IPs such as 192.168.0.*

Also, I want to add I would not worry about doing the DNS yourself...usually thats something you do because you can not because you need to. Using a large (national) DNS server (other than your ISPs) is a good practice to start. Use your ISPs as your secondary.

 

[waynehartwig]

I understand, I think... Looking at my routers (I have two) and neither have a way to say send port 80 to such IP. All I can enter is the routing IP address, mask and gateway. If I put the server's IP address in there, does it automatically know to send all of these ports to that IP or do I need a 'better' router that will allow me to select which ports to send to which IP's. It's called port mapping, correct?

As for the DNS, where do I go to tell it to translate alljeep.com to my IP?

This is gonna be fun!

 

[Caleb]

I understand, I think... Looking at my routers (I have two) and neither have a way to say send port 80 to such IP. All I can enter is the routing IP address, mask and gateway. If I put the server's IP address in there, does it automatically know to send all of these ports to that IP or do I need a 'better' router that will allow me to select which ports to send to which IP's. It's called port mapping, correct?

As for the DNS, where do I go to tell it to translate alljeep.com to my IP?

This is gonna be fun!

you should be able to forward your ports, even my cheapo Netgear router can do it. The Nameservers will need to be changed with your registrar to the nameserver you will be using. I use www.zoneedit.com for my name server, its free and does a lot of the work for you (it'll even forward mail to your domain to a specified address if you wish). Once you sign up there it will give you two name servers that you will enter at your registrar. The DNS ips will be entered on your server.

 

[Terrible Paulsy]

SSH is 20.

Shame on you. An Uber 1337 Linux HaX0r would know that SSH's default port is 22.


I know that this is totally irrelevant to your post, but I just couldn't contain the Geek in me from correcting you.

 

[Terrible Paulsy]

I say you go for it!!! WOOOOOT!!!!! After all, it's only money heartache and frustration if it doesn't work. Besides guys, how many time have we poored money down the wrong wheelin hole? It'll be like buying a Detroit for a D35 when you have 31" tires, but you want to grow them into 35" tires. Everyone tells you "don't do it", or "just save your money for a 'real' axle", but sometimes you just gotta learn it for yourself, out in the middle of golden spike with no spare shafts AAAHHHHH!!!!!! .... oh.... where was I? Ah yes.... telling you to go for it

 

[Herzog]

I have dreams of a dedicated room in my house full of servers on racks in every corner and an OC-255 connection. :freak:

 

[waynehartwig]

If my routers will port forward, I don't see where to tell it what ports to forward to what IP. I have a Linksys RT31P2 and a US Robotics 8054.

As for shelling out money on it, not really... I already have all of the hardware, I'm getting the DSL line to dump Qwest.... However, I really don't need two PC's, so I guess one could be sold instead of using it...? But then again, I guess I wouldn't have bought 5-300 Gig HDD's for a home PC.....

 

[waynehartwig]

 

[Caleb]

Shame on you. An Uber 1337 Linux HaX0r would know that SSH's default port is 22.


I know that this is totally irrelevant to your post, but I just couldn't contain the Geek in me from correcting you.

good call...whats funny is I only use ssh for my server and I have it setup so I have to speficy the port I use (custom port) to log on and I type it without even thinking about it

 

[Pathos]

If my routers will port forward, I don't see where to tell it what ports to forward to what IP. I have a Linksys RT31P2 and a US Robotics 8054.

Short answer RTFM

I'll play nice and point you in the right direction tho.

According to the manual for the Linksys you should be able to do the port forwarding thru the "Applications and Gaming" tab. (was this the same router Vonage was handing out?)

And for the USR look here