Political So now what

[Cody]

He is part of the powerful business establishment who has used the tax codes and his influence to his advantage to grow his businesses. Being a business owner has financial risk. He is not part of the DC political establishment who uses their influence to grow their personal wealth through influence with no financial risk.

I'm not crying foul at all about using the rules in the system to get ahead. I'd absolutely argue the opposite and I personally and unapologetically use every last drop of leverage I can squeeze out of the tax code in my situation.

But he absolutely has used his political influence before and after to grow his personal wealth and influence. I also don't see a very clear line between politicians and wealthy businesses, since wealthy business buys and sells politicians and legislation daily. Private money 100% dictates the American political system, and in my opinion that's the root of all of our problems. Take money out of politics and all of a sudden there is a path for someone outside of the 2 parties to actually be involved. I'd bet 80% of our population falls somewhere in the middle ground between the "official" bought and paid for positions of either party, but they are still forced to choose between the two polar opposites. Lobbying needs to go, and with it would much of the bickering and division that defines our current system.

 

[anderson750]

I'm not crying foul at all about using the rules in there system to get ahead. I'd absolutely argue the opposite and I personally and unapologetically use every last drop of leverage I can squeeze out of the tax code in my situation.

But he absolutely has used his political influence before and after to grow his personal wealth and influence. I also don't see a very clear line between politicians and wealthy businesses, since wealthy business buys and sells politicians and legislation daily. Private money 100% dictates the American political system, and in my opinion that's the root of all of our problems. Take money out of politics and all of a sudden there is a path for someone outside of the 2 parties to actually be involved. I'd bet 80% of our population falls somewhere in the middle ground between the "official" bought and paid for positions of either party, but they are still forced to choose between the two polar opposites. Lobbying needs to go, and with it would much of the bickering and division that defines our current system.

We pretty much agree on everything in principle. The only difference between 90% of Democrats and Republicans in DC is the letter that comes after their name when they are doing news hits.

 

[nnnnnate]

The last couple days I've been reading through the income tax articles from pro publica and believe more than ever that the tax law was is written by the rich to keep the rich rich. They have no interest in me or anyone in my tax bracket.

The Secret IRS Files

A massive trove of tax information obtained by ProPublica, covering thousands of America’s wealthiest individuals, reveals what’s inside the billionaires’ bag of tricks for minimizing their personal tax bills — sometimes to nothing.

www.propublica.org

 

[Pike2350]

I don't and won't fault anyone for wanting to or actually making money.
No one starts a business hoping it will fail.

I even hope the greedy, profit hungry, corporation owning Cody makes millions selling the devils drink.

Anyone who cries foul over trump using the tax code as written is silly. Its literally the LAW he is following.
And NO ONE EVER has said, 'no deductions for me please, I'd like to pay more in taxes'.

I don't have a problem with people using the tax code to the fullest....HOWEVER. I would argue that more people then not do so without much integrity and blatantly lie about many things.

vehicles, travel, food & entertainment and other "business expenses" that are not in any form business related. It is so common that most just say "that's what you do as a business owner" it is plain wrong. I understand there is some gray area in a lot of places but we all know people that use and abuse the system. Buying and writing off vehicles that are not used for business in any way. Writing off trips for the family as a business expense, etc.
I have little patience for these things and see it ALL the time. A simple example. Why did a Real Estate agent get to write off their clothes? Look professional? Don't most people in office environments need to look professional? Why do business owners buy their spouse new cars and write them off?

Traveling to CA for Disneyland? Look up real estate so you can claim business expense. These are where I feel business owners do illegal activity but will spin them into "legit" expenses as allowed by the tax code

 

[jeeper]

I don't have a problem with people using the tax code to the fullest....HOWEVER. I would argue that more people then not do so without much integrity and blatantly lie about many things.

vehicles, travel, food & entertainment and other "business expenses" that are not in any form business related. It is so common that most just say "that's what you do as a business owner" it is plain wrong. I understand there is some gray area in a lot of places but we all know people that use and abuse the system. Buying and writing off vehicles that are not used for business in any way. Writing off trips for the family as a business expense, etc.
I have little patience for these things and see it ALL the time. A simple example. Why did a Real Estate agent get to write off their clothes? Look professional? Don't most people in office environments need to look professional? Why do business owners buy their spouse new cars and write them off?

Traveling to CA for Disneyland? Look up real estate so you can claim business expense. These are where I feel business owners do illegal activity but will spin them into "legit" expenses as allowed by the tax code

So you are saying the new axles I bought for my dump trailer that I accidentally ordered wrong and can’t return, but fit perfectly under my camper trailer are not a legit write off??
I don’t think that can be correct.

 

[anderson750]

I don't have a problem with people using the tax code to the fullest....HOWEVER. I would argue that more people then not do so without much integrity and blatantly lie about many things.

vehicles, travel, food & entertainment and other "business expenses" that are not in any form business related. It is so common that most just say "that's what you do as a business owner" it is plain wrong. I understand there is some gray area in a lot of places but we all know people that use and abuse the system. Buying and writing off vehicles that are not used for business in any way. Writing off trips for the family as a business expense, etc.
I have little patience for these things and see it ALL the time. A simple example. Why did a Real Estate agent get to write off their clothes? Look professional? Don't most people in office environments need to look professional? Why do business owners buy their spouse new cars and write them off?

Traveling to CA for Disneyland? Look up real estate so you can claim business expense. These are where I feel business owners do illegal activity but will spin them into "legit" expenses as allowed by the tax code

About 6 years ago a professional organization I am a member of held their annual meeting in Honalulu. I took 5 of my employees to it. I also brought their spouses and my family. The trio was a legitimate business expense. That meeting is in Kauai this year and I am going as well as my sister who has some ownership in the company. We will fly out 2 days before. Sure we will do some sight seeing but the majority of our trip is a legitimate business expense.

As a business owner there are things you do to invest into your business to make it grow. I am used to W2 people who like to complain about what being a business owner affords you sometime. With risk…..comes rewards and failures.

@cruiseroutfit has built a successful business and does a lot of traveling to some pretty incredible places. I am going to assume that some of those are business trips. Is that wrong? Would it be wrong for somebody like @Agility Customs to build a rock crawler that promotes his business and claim some type of business expense?

There are a lot of risks in owning a business. Most W2 people assume the boss gets paid first but almost every business owner I know has gone without a paycheck when every one of their employees got paid.

 

[N-Smooth]

The only problem I have with people that “take advantage” of every possible tax savings is that I don’t know how to do it myself. Heaven knows we’re all paying way too much.

 

[Cody]

I have 30 employees between my two businesses. 7 full time, 23 part time. I was 17th last year in pay.

I'm going to pay for my truck that I drive to work in through my business along with it's fuel and it's insurance... And I'll also use it use for personal things. Sorry if I'm being unfair ha ha.

Edit: actually I had 57 different people work for me last year. I'm still 17th, but I deserve two ****ing work trucks now that I think about it, and @anderson750's Hawaiian vacation.

 

[Agility Customs]

My only problem with taking advantage of the tax code is I wish I knew how to do it better…. #taxationistheft

#ilearnedfromherzog

 

[Houndoc]

We try to blend how I write off business travel. Airfare, hotel and meeting expenses yes. Tours and activities before or after no.

 

[Hickey]

I’m fully supportive of people taking every tax advantage they can. #taxationistheft

 

[Pike2350]

@anderson750. If your traveling to a place that has actual business dealings then no, I don't have a problem with it. I understand (being in accounting) how trying to differentiate which portion is business and which is personal on
Those types of trips can be more hassle. The trips you described are employees and you going somewhere for business and you bring along the family. Now, you should not be deducting the airfare for your spouse and kids (if they go) unless they are actually part of the business. To me that is wrong. The trips I mean are ones that are completely personal and have no business involved but people will do something small just to then write it off. I have a friend that is an FA....so very good at trying to figure ways to reduce tax burden. He travels to see family in CA a few times a year. A few of the family members are clients. So those trips get expensed even though the reason for the trip is not business related. He goes to Disneyland and the family members down there are older so they don't go...but he doesn't differentiate those types of activities. His wife works in Real Estate a d every trip they go on she "looks at the local market" and they expense the trip. It's all BS and lacks integrity to do those things in my eye.
@Cody. I don't have an issue with owners having vehicles paid by the company, and those related expenses. However. If your spouse or kids doesn't really interact with the business and the company pays for those vehicle, then it is BS. I have seen it a lot over the years as a someone working in accounting and I don't agree with it.

I understand some expenses that business owners can write off and expense just come with being a business owner...but too many owners take advantage of their ability to write off things as a business owner that are in NO WAY business related and I find it very sad how so many people will argue that it is perfectly fine.

I know almost every business owner does it to some degree...but I believe it has gotten worse in the past 3 decades. I recall a long time ago when the .gov allowed "invsetmemt" of vehicles over a certain GVWR. All of a sudden a ton of business owners were driving H2's. I even heard of one where his wife and 3 kids got new vehicles...all over that magic GVWR.

 

[Pike2350]

So you are saying the new axles I bought for my dump trailer that I accidentally ordered wrong and can’t return, but fit perfectly under my camper trailer are not a legit write off??
I don’t think that can be correct.

I can't tell if this was sarcasm or not...but this is exactly the game I see people play...except the "ordered for my dump trailer and they were wrong" is in quotes because it was never meant that way....but yes that is exactly what I mean.

 

[Hickey]

@anderson750. If your traveling to a place that has actual business dealings then no, I don't have a problem with it. I understand (being in accounting) how trying to differentiate which portion is business and which is personal on
Those types of trips can be more hassle. The trips you described are employees and you going somewhere for business and you bring along the family. Now, you should not be deducting the airfare for your spouse and kids (if they go) unless they are actually part of the business. To me that is wrong. The trips I mean are ones that are completely personal and have no business involved but people will do something small just to then write it off. I have a friend that is an FA....so very good at trying to figure ways to reduce tax burden. He travels to see family in CA a few times a year. A few of the family members are clients. So those trips get expensed even though the reason for the trip is not business related. He goes to Disneyland and the family members down there are older so they don't go...but he doesn't differentiate those types of activities. His wife works in Real Estate a d every trip they go on she "looks at the local market" and they expense the trip. It's all BS and lacks integrity to do those things in my eye.
@Cody. I don't have an issue with owners having vehicles paid by the company, and those related expenses. However. If your spouse or kids doesn't really interact with the business and the company pays for those vehicle, then it is BS. I have seen it a lot over the years as a someone working in accounting and I don't agree with it.

I understand some expenses that business owners can write off and expense just come with being a business owner...but too many owners take advantage of their ability to write off things as a business owner that are in NO WAY business related and I find it very sad how so many people will argue that it is perfectly fine.

I know almost every business owner does it to some degree...but I believe it has gotten worse in the past 3 decades. I recall a long time ago when the .gov allowed "invsetmemt" of vehicles over a certain GVWR. All of a sudden a ton of business owners were driving H2's. I even heard of one where his wife and 3 kids got new vehicles...all over that magic GVWR.

That’s odd, because my work pays for my spouses airfare when she’s gone on business trips with me, but I do work for the devil and the devil has a whole city devoted to accounting, with a township dedicated to business travel and entertainment.

 

[glockman]

I can't tell if this was sarcasm or not...but this is exactly the game I see people play...except the "ordered for my dump trailer and they were wrong" is in quotes because it was never meant that way....but yes that is exactly what I mean.

The government taxes me at least 5 times on every dollar I earn. Eff them. There is no amount of tax evasion that levels the playing field. I have started several businesses for no reason other than to capitalize on tax avoidance. It is not immoral or or unethical. What is immoral and unethical is the government stealing my hard earned money to give to their cronies. If the government was at all interested in acting in an ethical manner we would have zero income tax and only use taxes. So I guess you could say we have a philosophical gap.

 

[johngottfredson]

I don't have a problem with people using the tax code to the fullest....HOWEVER. I would argue that more people then not do so without much integrity and blatantly lie about many things.

vehicles, travel, food & entertainment and other "business expenses" that are not in any form business related. It is so common that most just say "that's what you do as a business owner" it is plain wrong. I understand there is some gray area in a lot of places but we all know people that use and abuse the system. Buying and writing off vehicles that are not used for business in any way. Writing off trips for the family as a business expense, etc.
I have little patience for these things and see it ALL the time. A simple example. Why did a Real Estate agent get to write off their clothes? Look professional? Don't most people in office environments need to look professional? Why do business owners buy their spouse new cars and write them off?

Traveling to CA for Disneyland? Look up real estate so you can claim business expense. These are where I feel business owners do illegal activity but will spin them into "legit" expenses as allowed by the tax code

How much do you pay in taxes? When my accountant last year told me I was staring at a $90,000 tax bill, I changed from a philosophical libertarian to an insurrection-shaman libertarian. If I felt at all that the government was being fair with how it taxes and spends my money, I might feel a moral obligation to pay what they’re asking with no games. As it is, I don’t feel one bit of guilt exploiting any damn loophole I can.

Also, I think voting should be only available to taxpayers. 50% of the country that doesn’t owe taxes every year should have ZERO say on how much I have to pay.

 

[Pike2350]

Arguing about the tax structure (which I agree is messed up) and doing things that are arguably "exploiting loopholes" by flat out lying is different. You guys can do what you want. You don't have to agree with the tax code but flat out lying about your business expenses is wrong....but justify it how you will.

@johngottfredson. How much I pay doesn't really matter. But in 2022 it was about $25k. I have had this philosophical debate with many people. I have looked at sxs. My one FA friend says to put it under my rentals and say it's a business expense. It isn't and I wouldn't use it for business....but I know most here from the sound of it would. An ATV, which I have also debated would be used for some business to plow the driveways (sxs is too large for sidewalks) so those I would put under my rentals. That is where I have the problem. It's not "gaming the system" it's flat out lying.

 

[johngottfredson]

Arguing about the tax structure (which I agree is messed up) and doing things that are arguably "exploiting loopholes" by flat out lying is different. You guys can do what you want. You don't have to agree with the tax code but flat out lying about your business expenses is wrong....but justify it how you will.

@johngottfredson. How much I pay doesn't really matter. But in 2022 it was about $25k. I have had this philosophical debate with many people. I have looked at sxs. My one FA friend says to put it under my rentals and say it's a business expense. It isn't and I wouldn't use it for business....but I know most here from the sound of it would. An ATV, which I have also debated would be used for some business to plow the driveways (sxs is too large for sidewalks) so those I would put under my rentals. That is where I have the problem. It's not "gaming the system" it's flat out lying.

I applaud your Kantian moral imperative to be truthful to all governments everywhere. I will throw tea into the harbor and feel okay about it.

 

[Stephen]

I applaud your Kantian moral imperative to be truthful to all governments everywhere. I will throw tea into the harbor and feel okay about it.

Excellent use of the word "Kantian".

 

[TRD270]

EPA preparing to release strict vehicle emissions rules

The Environmental Protection Agency is preparing to release strict new proposed federal emissions standards for light-duty vehicles that, if implemented, would move the U.S. car market decisively toward electric vehicles over the next decade.

www.ksl.com

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