zukijames
Well-Known Member
- Location
- not moab anymore
A stick usually can launch a little better. You can't really rev up an auto and throw in gear..that being said I'm still going to an auto think it will be nice in the technical stuff
Automatic or manual tranny for off-roading?
- Thread starter Wasatch Rebel
- Start date
Maverick
old-school
- Location
- Anywhere, thanks to my geeky droid
Had both. Liked both. Next rockcrawler will have an auto, just to have an auto on the nasty ledges. Actually, most of my future rigs will have autos. Hard to beat a powerful V8 with an auto. A powerful V8 with a stick is fun too 
A gutless engine with an auto is miserable.
I don't really think about it much, I've driven both so much that I just kind of drive whatever is in the vehicle I'm driving. I've been both frusterated and pleased in situations with both stick and auto trannies.
The 4 speed in my jeep (SM465): I like the compression braking, the total control of wheel speed, the direct drive (no slush), the ability with the killer torque of the bigblock to idle up steep stuff. I hate shifting in the middle of the intersection and the lack of the auto-rock-crawl-gas/brake "thang". I still can't bring myself to put an auto in my scrambler.
The auto in my deezul: built f*rd 4speed with lots of doodads and expensive parts. Crisp shifts, holds OD, blah blah blah. A 5 or 6 speed wasn't offered in the model I have. Buying another tow rig? probably auto, maybe manual.
Similar to one of the posts above, in a wrangler, I'd look for an auto, but wouldn't turn it down if it was otherwise nice and was a stick.
A gutless engine with an auto is miserable.
I don't really think about it much, I've driven both so much that I just kind of drive whatever is in the vehicle I'm driving. I've been both frusterated and pleased in situations with both stick and auto trannies.
The 4 speed in my jeep (SM465): I like the compression braking, the total control of wheel speed, the direct drive (no slush), the ability with the killer torque of the bigblock to idle up steep stuff. I hate shifting in the middle of the intersection and the lack of the auto-rock-crawl-gas/brake "thang". I still can't bring myself to put an auto in my scrambler.
The auto in my deezul: built f*rd 4speed with lots of doodads and expensive parts. Crisp shifts, holds OD, blah blah blah. A 5 or 6 speed wasn't offered in the model I have. Buying another tow rig? probably auto, maybe manual.
Similar to one of the posts above, in a wrangler, I'd look for an auto, but wouldn't turn it down if it was otherwise nice and was a stick.
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SUPERFLY
CaptainRob
- Location
- sugar house
I'm struggling with this problem right now as I'm collecting parts to build a buggy. I loooooooove my manual but I know the benefits of an auto and with the motor I want to run its way easier to bolt up an auto. Not to mention fitting an auto shifter in a buggy with limited space is a bit easier than a stick. And it one less pedal to run. On the other hand like what was mentioned before the manual does appeal to the opposite sex, my girlfriend makes fun of me every time I talk about putting a auto in it
jswainthug
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Murray
Your girl friend wont drive either, so who cares . Auto tranny always has torque so put it in!!!!!
Maverick
old-school
- Location
- Anywhere, thanks to my geeky droid
I wouldn't dream of building a buggy without an auto.
Your gf isn't making fun of the auto...
I for one believe this is all about personal preference. My friends all drive Autos, but I prefer a manual. I have more fun with it offroad. It makes the trail seem that much more of a challange, and that way I dont get bored. Granted, wheeling on the east coast is a little different than what you guys do, but even so, if I lived out there i doubt my preference would change. This is simply because every time i turn around it seems like one of my friends has blown an auto in their rig. I help with a tranny swap nearly once every 3 months it would seem. I realize that this may be unusual, but I feel as though my manual can hold up to abuse better, and believe me, i whip the hell out of my rig both onroad and off.
To me autos seem bigger, heavier, more complex and less reliable, as well as less beneficial than a standard. But this all has to do with my personal experiences, and thus my preference, so I know many would not agree with this but it is my opinion.
As for the better driver thing. Its all about whether you CAN drive a manual, not if you do. I just believe it is a valuable skill to have that fewer and fewer people are taking the time to learn.
Manuals and Autos both have their pros and cons, so once again it seems it all comes down to preference. Now if you are going for the cool factor alone, there is a simple and time-tested equation:
The fewer the doors, the larger the trunk and the more pedals a vehicle has, the cooler it is.
So, that being said, if you are looking to look cool, try to find a rig with 1 door, 6 pedals and a trunk big enough to hold a dozen dead bodies.
You'll be like the Fonz.
To me autos seem bigger, heavier, more complex and less reliable, as well as less beneficial than a standard. But this all has to do with my personal experiences, and thus my preference, so I know many would not agree with this but it is my opinion.
As for the better driver thing. Its all about whether you CAN drive a manual, not if you do. I just believe it is a valuable skill to have that fewer and fewer people are taking the time to learn.
Manuals and Autos both have their pros and cons, so once again it seems it all comes down to preference. Now if you are going for the cool factor alone, there is a simple and time-tested equation:
The fewer the doors, the larger the trunk and the more pedals a vehicle has, the cooler it is.
So, that being said, if you are looking to look cool, try to find a rig with 1 door, 6 pedals and a trunk big enough to hold a dozen dead bodies.
You'll be like the Fonz.
Unimog
Eric
- Location
- Stansbury Park, UT
You can buy a unimog with a manual tranny combined with a torque converter. You use the clutch to select your gear and then just use the brake and throttle to speed up or slow down/stop. They are primarily used for pulling heavy loads: fighter jet tug, railway shunt engine, etc.
Maverick
old-school
- Location
- Anywhere, thanks to my geeky droid
Ah crap I will throw in my .02 even though it isn't worth that on this topic...
First and foremost, get what you like.
Second the question was asked about jeep wranglers, presumably stock-ish, so lets leave out "can be built..." (and after having said that I will talk about my ford... )
For moderately built rigs either Auto or Stick will SUCK if not geared properly.
I will probably never build a trail rig with an auto (my wife hates autos... which will make it hard to buy anything in the future...)
In addition to the durability and cheapness advantages of a stick, if you add a hand throttle you will have more precision while driving slow. It would be like being able to throttle the torque converter in an auto.
Another advantage is being able to "clutch it"... if you get funky on a climb you can stab the clutch in and roll out of it before you end up rubber end up.
Huge disadvantage of a stick, you can "clutch it" and stab the clutch in when you should have drove out of it and end up rubber end up. (usually dropping down things)
My bronco is set up for a stick. 460, np435, 4 speed, 203/205 doubler and 4.10's in the axles it has 110:1 (ish) crawl ratio, keep in mind that is behind a big block. (and with no overdrive will do about 75 mph at 2300 rpms...) the other cool thing about my rig is that it doesn't take a drop of ATF so that is one fluid I don't have to carry, I *just* carry gear oil, quart of motor oil, small container of brake fluid, 3 gallons of coolant, and some PS fluid.
bumping in my rig; roll back a bit, put in second or third gear (auto's can't start in 2nd or 3rd gear) rev up motor with hand throttle, release break and clutch with feet, when it works right, it is smoother than a auto will ever do since you have control over the engagement as well as the throttle and brake. but it does take practice and even when I was wheeling every weekend I would not do it smooth all the time.
I have a friend who has an almost identical bronco to mine but with an auto (one ton's 37 inch tires, same suspension etc...) there was never anything that one of us made it up that the other didn't "because of our transmission" I did however do much better on Lower heldorado (when it was open) than a similar bronco that had a 5 speed and no hand throttle.
Just another pro on the simple-ness; I have seen many vehicles immobilized by bad auto transmissions. I have seen some pretty beat up manuals still able to move. I actually drove my bronco across town with no clutch, the slave cylinder broke off the bell housing. it went like this; put tranny in granny, put t-case in N, start truck, slam t-case into high, shift tranny without clutch, when approaching stop light slide tranny in N, at stop light put t-case in N put tranny in granny, and do it all over again. I couldn't do it in rush hour or on the edge of Moab Rim, but the rig is still able to move under it's own power since there is a direct connection between the motor and tranny. (and when I slam on the brakes the truck will just stall out so it is not like I would have had a runaway truck or anything)
If you disable the clutch safety switch you can drive very short distances on the starter if you have a no start condition. This is very useful to get your rig out of the way if it dies on the trail/road.
I think it manuals are more for people that like to tinker with stuff, that suites me fine.
Nathan
87 bronco 460, np435, np203/205, d-60, gm14bolt, 37 inch goodyears
(and most of that ^ will be going into an xj soon)
http://www.supermotors.net/registry/194
First and foremost, get what you like.
Second the question was asked about jeep wranglers, presumably stock-ish, so lets leave out "can be built..." (and after having said that I will talk about my ford...
)For moderately built rigs either Auto or Stick will SUCK if not geared properly.
I will probably never build a trail rig with an auto (my wife hates autos... which will make it hard to buy anything in the future...)
In addition to the durability and cheapness advantages of a stick, if you add a hand throttle you will have more precision while driving slow. It would be like being able to throttle the torque converter in an auto.
Another advantage is being able to "clutch it"... if you get funky on a climb you can stab the clutch in and roll out of it before you end up rubber end up.
Huge disadvantage of a stick, you can "clutch it" and stab the clutch in when you should have drove out of it and end up rubber end up. (usually dropping down things)
My bronco is set up for a stick. 460, np435, 4 speed, 203/205 doubler and 4.10's in the axles it has 110:1 (ish) crawl ratio, keep in mind that is behind a big block. (and with no overdrive will do about 75 mph at 2300 rpms...) the other cool thing about my rig is that it doesn't take a drop of ATF so that is one fluid I don't have to carry, I *just* carry gear oil, quart of motor oil, small container of brake fluid, 3 gallons of coolant, and some PS fluid.
bumping in my rig; roll back a bit, put in second or third gear (auto's can't start in 2nd or 3rd gear) rev up motor with hand throttle, release break and clutch with feet, when it works right, it is smoother than a auto will ever do since you have control over the engagement as well as the throttle and brake. but it does take practice and even when I was wheeling every weekend I would not do it smooth all the time.
I have a friend who has an almost identical bronco to mine but with an auto (one ton's 37 inch tires, same suspension etc...) there was never anything that one of us made it up that the other didn't "because of our transmission" I did however do much better on Lower heldorado (when it was open) than a similar bronco that had a 5 speed and no hand throttle.
Just another pro on the simple-ness; I have seen many vehicles immobilized by bad auto transmissions. I have seen some pretty beat up manuals still able to move. I actually drove my bronco across town with no clutch, the slave cylinder broke off the bell housing. it went like this; put tranny in granny, put t-case in N, start truck, slam t-case into high, shift tranny without clutch, when approaching stop light slide tranny in N, at stop light put t-case in N put tranny in granny, and do it all over again. I couldn't do it in rush hour or on the edge of Moab Rim, but the rig is still able to move under it's own power since there is a direct connection between the motor and tranny. (and when I slam on the brakes the truck will just stall out so it is not like I would have had a runaway truck or anything)
If you disable the clutch safety switch you can drive very short distances on the starter if you have a no start condition. This is very useful to get your rig out of the way if it dies on the trail/road.
I think it manuals are more for people that like to tinker with stuff, that suites me fine.
Nathan
87 bronco 460, np435, np203/205, d-60, gm14bolt, 37 inch goodyears
(and most of that ^ will be going into an xj soon)
http://www.supermotors.net/registry/194
blackburban
2000 Dodge Durango SLT
- Location
- Duchesne, utah
manual is the best hands down lol
i'll bite... IMO
i still have less fluids
i thought this same thing when i switched to an auto but it's super simple to push the handle into N or R, especially if the shift gates are removed
see above
i would have to carry it anyways cause i put ATF in the t-case as well, and since you carry 3 gallons of coolant
i still have less fluidswhat makes you think that? even with it just in D it will pick whatever gear it thinks is appropriate but yeah i pick gears manually all the time
How do you get an auto to start from a dead stop in 2nd or 3rd gear?
That kicks ass I didn't know that!
Everyone I have driven when you are stopped it would start in 1st gear then shift up.
Nathan
i'll bite... IMO
i would have to carry it anyways cause i put ATF in the t-case as well, and since you carry 3 gallons of coolant
Yeah the bronco is friggen beast. When we build the xj we will have to carry ATF for the AX-15 and gear oil for the np203/205. And I am sure the 4.0L won't require carrying 3 gallons of coolant though...
(the cooling system in the bronco takes 5 gallons
)Nathan
Most will start in 1st when in "D", but you can put in a manual valvebody which will make it stay in whatever gear you select--it will never shift by itself.
XJ AW4's are electronically controlled, so it's pretty simple (I hear) to make them behave as if they had a similar valvebody.
it is ridiculously simple to control gear selection in the aw4, it is all in the 2 transmission solenoids. add a couple switches and you can pin it in first or second. it's also very simple to lock the torque converter, which i'm not interested in but a lot of people do it.
the aw4 is a good tranny, i have been impressed with mine and it was not treated nicely by the previous owner. i'm pretty sure he never changed the atf, that's how bad it looked. shifts like a dream and it's got 190k on it
the aw4 is a good tranny, i have been impressed with mine and it was not treated nicely by the previous owner. i'm pretty sure he never changed the atf, that's how bad it looked. shifts like a dream and it's got 190k on it
Houndoc
Registered User
- Location
- Grantsville
Second the question was asked about jeep wranglers, presumably stock-ish, so lets leave out "can be built..." (and after having said that I will talk about my ford...
In addition to the durability and cheapness advantages of a stick, if you add a hand throttle you will have more precision while driving slow.
Key point there..."stockish" leads to "if you add a hand throttle".
I would doubt that a hand throttle is in the future of the original poster.
adding a hand throttle is much easier than a lot of the mods talked about in this thread. My hand throttle cost me $0.00 and about an hour of time. It is a mtn bike brake lever and cable assembly that is routed under the dash and pulls the gas pedal. It is mounted on the shift stick. I pull it with my middle finger and it will put the pedal about 80% to the floor.
I would say that a hand throttle is more "stock-ish" than adding switches to control what gear your aw-4 starts in. In both situations the transmissions are not only "stockish" they are completely stock.
I tell everyone on the trail with a stick that they should install a hand throttle, there are times it is really really useful to be on the gas the brake and clutch and heel-toeing usually doesn't work off road. Hand throttle is like OBA you don't know how much you will use it until you have it.
Nathan
Maverick
old-school
- Location
- Anywhere, thanks to my geeky droid
Or...instead of a hand throttle, install a TBI454 and it will maintain it's own idle, with enough torque to get it done.
BCGPER
Starting Another Thread
- Location
- Sunny Arizona
Speaking of, how's that busted T case working out for ya??
(sorry buddy, couldn't resist)
(sorry buddy, couldn't resist)
Or...instead of a hand throttle, install a TBI454 and it will maintain it's own idle, with enough torque to get it done.