Help me pick out a new (to me) bike.

[SpeedyVic]

I'm currently in the market for a new trail bike. All I have ever owned have been KTM 2-strokes. And in full disclosure, I will probably end up buying another KTM 300 EXC or XCw. Heck, I still have some new orange plastic at my house from my old 300 EXC that I sold last year.

Let me make a list of what I am looking for:

First, it must have electric start. I was hit by a car while riding my Victory home from work last August. Almost lost my foot. Right now, if I had to kick a bike, it would really hurt. Plus the magic button would be nice to remedy those moments when you need 3 legs.

It must have a wide ratio tranny. 6 gears would be a plus. None of my other KTM's had a 6th, but I did have a couple of instances where I wished it did. Blazing like a bat out of hell across the desert in a hare scramble makes you appreciate a 6.

I'm kinda drawn to the power-to-weight ratio of the 2-stroke, but am not completely locked in on that. If I went to a 4-stroke, I would want the bike to be as light as possible. I don't think I would be happy with a 250 either.

I ride with a bunch of hardcore KTM racers and so all I know is KTM. Every once in a while, one of them will get a bug up his butt, and buy something other than orange, but they never wander very far for very long, always coming back to the KTM brand.

I've been out in the boonies of the swell and had some minor parts break. Finding orange parts is kinda hard. Everything on the shelf seems to fit on blue, red, or yellow. I have been on a mad dash to Grand Junction to get a new radiator (not my bike) to salvage a long riding weekend. If it had been off of a Honda or Yammy, it wouldn't have been a problem. Thats the main reason why I would consider something else.

My riding consist mainly of slow technical single track with a couple of desert races and maybe one trip to the dunes a year.

So lets hear your opinions, pros, cons, etc.

 

[Greg]

You know what bike has really caught my attention? A KTM 350 XCF-W. Sounds like it would work for you as well! The size & weight of a 250 with the power of a 450. 6 speed, EFI, e-start and 236 lbs dry!

[video=youtube;AA4DisPyItk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AA4DisPyItk[/video]


I really want one, but they're $$$$. The XCF-W came out in 2012, so it's not like the market is flooded with used ones. I think a trials tire and a Rekluse would make one of these a friggin' mountain goat.

 

[SpeedyVic]

I was looking at them as well. I talked to a friend (Jim Morris a.k.a. Fat Jimmy for those of you that desert race) that still races about them and he said that I should not get one of those. The nice thing about the KTM 2-strokes is , for the most part, you can ride them like a 4-stroke. Some people have actually described them as a 3-stroke cause they have the torque to get you up a steep hill without the high RPMs. The advantage of the 4-stroke would be in coming down that steep hill!

Funny thing aboout the guys that I ride with is that when I bought my first KTM, all I heard was "you should get a thumper!" but now, almost all of them have converted back from their 450's and 525's to the 300.

Jim says that the 350 will be comparable to the 300 output wise. The reason he said to stay away from it is that, when it comes time to redo the top end, the simplicity of the 300 is going to be hard to beat. Just toss in the new piston and (pretty much) off you go. If you are going to burden yourself with the maintenance of the 4-stroke motor, than you should get more power benefit than what the 350 will give you.

 

[SpeedyVic]

I like the look of the aluminum frames on the Jap bikes. How are they for durability? I can be pretty rough on my bike.

 

[rholbrook]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Veyecteaoare[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]The reasons you have stated are exactly why I ride Blue. I ride with guys with KTMs and they give me sh*t everytime we go. The fact remains that if one of them breaks down, they are in fact sitting in the truck if its a part you cant get somewhere close or have someone meet you with it. [/FONT]

Yes, I know they come with better brakes and a hydraulic clutch and yada yada but they should for what they are asking for them. Hands down, the Yamaha is the most dependable maintenance wise out of all of them. I can afford an Orange bike but I choose to go with Blue. [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Things as simple as a clutch lever is twice as much. Makes no sense to me. You remove the KTM300 and any of the Japanese will compete. My nephew just sold his WR450 because he wants a KTM 450.

Greg, one of my good friends that I ride with just bought a new 2012 KTM350XCW and put a Rekluse and left handed brake on it. He is dying to try it out, and so am I. He just sold a nice 2012 KTM300XCW with a Rekluse. He hated the type of power, said it was like drinking out of a garden hose and some hurrys and turns it on full blast. I rode and liked it but I like bigger bore 2Ts. I still preferred my WR.

Now days, I just dont think you can go wrong with any bike you choose. If you want a 6th gear then you are limited. My order of Japanese bikes are Blue Red Green and then Yellow.....actually, I would never buy a Suzuki again but thats another story. KTM is probably tied with Honda for me. I would ride Honda because I like how the saddle feels while riding but MAJOR maintenance intervals seem too close for my liking. [/FONT]

 

[SpeedyVic]

Veyecteaoare

The reasons you have stated are exactly why I ride Blue. I ride with guys with KTMs and they give me sh*t everytime we go. The fact remains that if one of them breaks down, they are in fact sitting in the truck if its a part you cant get somewhere close or have someone meet you with it.

You just made me realize why it seems like everytime we ride, we are an ocean of orange. Spare parts! That must be why we seem to stick/ride together.

 

[Deleted member 12904]

Seems Like your mind is already made up. The 300 is an awesome bike.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[SpeedyVic]

Seems Like your mind is already made up. The 300 is an awesome bike.

I did make that disclaimer in the OP. But I am not 100% sold yet.

I am 42 years old, 5' 10" tall and, before my accident, normally weigh in at 170 lbs. I'm currently @ 162 lbs due to loss of upper body mass from being down for so long. But I hope to be back to normal soon. At 175, the 300 was a perfect fit for me.

 

[Deleted member 12904]

Well when I have my mind made up on something like you do now and I end up going with something different 99.9% of the time it's because I get a killer deal on something else. And 75% of the time I regret it. You know you're going to be happy with the 300 anything different is going to be a gamble weather not you like it as much as the 300 or possibly better but it still a gamble.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[TRD270]

I know someone who has a nice WR450 for sale

 

[Gravy]

The only (transmission) difference between the exc and the xcw is the lower first gear and very similar second gear.
The rest of the gears are the same.
Just a wider spread between 1st and 2nd.

Just to give you and idea on the WR
Gear ratio:
1st 29/12 (2.416)
2nd 26/15 (1.733)
3rd 21/16 (1.312)
4th 21/20 (1.050)
5th 21/25 (0.840)

and the two ktm bikes
exc xcw
sec drive gearing 14-50 13-50
1st 31:15 (2.066) 32:14 (2.285)
2nd 25:16 (1.5625) 26:16 (1.625)
3rd 25:20 25:20 (1.25)
4th 23:22 23:22 (1.045)
5th 22:25 22:25 (0.88)
6th 20:26 20:26 (0.769)

Looking at dyno graphs, math would say the reason the 2 strokes needs 6 speeds is to keep them in the power band.
The two different engines (2t v. 4t) make peak power at different RPM's.

10lbs difference in dry weight isn't enough to notice. That's a Jacket, a hair cut and a poo
I would probably be ecstatic with either bike!


I think the ideal bike would be a 450 4stroke with a 6speed trans

 

[SpeedyVic]

I know someone who has a nice WR450 for sale

I am considering yours! The first trail bike I ever rode was a friends WR450. He had just bought a new KTM and still had the old WR around. We went and did the Richards Hollow trail up Left Hand Fork. It was a blast, but finicky to start when hot. You had to kick it the right way or you would kick yourself to death!

I am currently paying all of my medical expenses myself. At least whatever is left after my personal insurance gets done paying. The guy that hit me was driving a rental car. Neither his insurance or Hertz ins. is eager to pay. When I get ready to buy, and if you happen to still have this WR, I will definitely take a look and consider it! It's hard to pass up a good deal!

 

[SpeedyVic]

The only (transmission) difference between the exc and the xcw is the lower first gear and very similar second gear.
The rest of the gears are the same.
Just a wider spread between 1st and 2nd.

Just to give you and idea on the WR
Gear ratio:
1st 29/12 (2.416)
2nd 26/15 (1.733)
3rd 21/16 (1.312)
4th 21/20 (1.050)
5th 21/25 (0.840)

and the two ktm bikes
exc xcw
sec drive gearing 14-50 13-50
1st 31:15 (2.066) 32:14 (2.285)
2nd 25:16 (1.5625) 26:16 (1.625)
3rd 25:20 25:20 (1.25)
4th 23:22 23:22 (1.045)
5th 22:25 22:25 (0.88)
6th 20:26 20:26 (0.769)

Looking at dyno graphs, math would say the reason the 2 strokes needs 6 speeds is to keep them in the power band.
The two different engines (2t v. 4t) make peak power at different RPM's.

10lbs difference in dry weight isn't enough to notice. That's a Jacket, a hair cut and a poo
I would probably be ecstatic with either bike!


I think the ideal bike would be a 450 4stroke with a 6speed trans

Great info! When I had my EXC out to Knolls and going wide open across the mud flat, it started to choke on it's own vomit at about the 70 mph mark. My buddy that was riding a KTM 450 MXC left me behind like I was standing still. I could probably buy his MXC for fairly cheap cause he doesn't ever ride it anymore, but I would probably hate the gearing in it.

 

[Cascadia]

This is good info. Thinking of picking up a second (orange) bike.

 

[rockreligious]

I love my KX450f, especially the way I have it set up, but If I were to go back to the dark side, the only 2 smoker I would buy is the KTM 300. for all of the type of riding you listed that you do which is what I ride.

edit.. Im 6'6" 240 lbs, so 250's dont cut it for me. Ive rode a couple 300's and I could really get used to that bike.

 

[anderson750]

In the last 8 years I have owned a 05 CRF 250r, 08 WR 450 and 08 300XC. All the bikes had their strengths and weaknesses and I enjoyed riding them all. The CRF was the bike I bought when I got back into riding after a 15 year hiatus. The had good power, was light and fun to ride.....the maintenance was not to bad once you put stainless steel valves in it. While this bike is built for motocross, it was not to bad of a trail bike with some minor modifications. I next picked up the WR 450. While quite a bit heavier than the 250 and not quite as nimble, it was a great trail bike that took very little maintenance. I did the standard modifications to uncork and liven it up and the bike had great power. The only downside of this bike for me was the suspension......it was way too soft. The group I ride with is pretty aggressive and my riding style in general is pretty aggressive since I come from a motocross background more than desert or trails. After a 22 year absence from racing I decided to race the 50th anniversary of the Cherry Creek Hare and Hound on this bike. The bike did fine but after 120 miles of race speed, you can really feel how much of a tank this bike is.

In 2012 my boy started racing and I decided I would do a couple of select races for fun. The first was the Notch Peak race in Delta. After riding that WR through 60 miles of deep sand whoops I knew that was not going to be the bike for racing and that is when I picked up my 300xc. By far, the 300 is my favorite bike. I have put the ignition map switch on it and done the head mod of shaving .002 off. The power and torque of this bike is as good as any 450 I have ever ridden and it is less expensive to maintain than even my WR was. I don't think the KTM's are any more maintenance than any of the other bikes out there, I just think they are less tollerant to neglect. Most of the people who you see having problems are people who do not do good general maintenance.

So, after saying all that, I don't think you can go wrong with any bike. You just need to decide which fits you the best and I agree with Fat Jimmy.....even if he does hang around with the Buzzards.

 

[SpeedyVic]

LOL! Jim is a crack up! I've worked a couple of checkpoints with him and it was a non-stop laugh fest! And he and I actually work for the same company, so I see him quite a bit. Good guy!

After doing the Sportsman 40 mile loop at Cherry Creek, I can really appreciate what you went through doing 3 loops! Those whoops are square! I wiped out on them at over 30 mph. Ended up having to finish the last 10 miles and 2 checkpoints with no clutch (broken lever). But I got my Finishing pin!

 

[Caleb]

I think what Paul and Russ are saying is spot on. My favorite bike I've owned to date is my current bike, a 300XC. I loved my CRF450X, my Husky was a brute, but nothing compares to riding my 300. I can ride trails that I would be dead at the end of the day on my CRF, on my 300 and still feel good at the end of the trail.

Also, if a 6th gear is a must, then you've ruled out all the Jap bikes already. So that limits you to choosing if you want a 4T KTM or a 2T KTM, both are available with the 6th gear. From what I've heard on the KTM 350s is they ride like a motocross bike. No torque down low, all of it is up high in the RPMs, which means you need to be on it all the time. As you know, and has been mentioned, the beauty of the 300 is you can lug it around like a 4T but still have the power you need with a simple twist of the throttle. For 95% of my riding, I wouldn't trade my 300 for anything (well, maybe a brand new 300 ). I'd love to pickup a 4T for the long rides where you will require more fuel than a desert tank can hold but the trails still require a more offroad oriented bike.

 

[TRD270]

I am considering yours! The first trail bike I ever rode was a friends WR450. He had just bought a new KTM and still had the old WR around. We went and did the Richards Hollow trail up Left Hand Fork. It was a blast, but finicky to start when hot. You had to kick it the right way or you would kick yourself to death!

I am currently paying all of my medical expenses myself. At least whatever is left after my personal insurance gets done paying. The guy that hit me was driving a rental car. Neither his insurance or Hertz ins. is eager to pay. When I get ready to buy, and if you happen to still have this WR, I will definitely take a look and consider it! It's hard to pass up a good deal!

Let me know if you want to check it out, I'm not really advertising it anywhere but here. Haven't posted on KSL yet as I'm not in a tremendous hurry. Mines not finicky on hot starts, but it can be a bear to kick start when it's been sitting for awhile. But thats what e-start is for

 

[Greg]

... From what I've heard on the KTM 350s is they ride like a motocross bike. No torque down low, all of it is up high in the RPMs, which means you need to be on it all the time.

I've heard that about the other models, but supposedly the XCF-W's deeper first gear takes care of that problem.