Initiative 1

OCNORB

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
Alpine
How come nobody is talking about this initiative?? It's called the Clean water, quality growth, clean air initiative. I downloaded and read the document last night. www.elections.utah.gov/UTAHCLEANWATER.pdf

I may be ignorant and unedumacated, but it looks to me like a way to tax us and then give the money to 501(c)'s! Does that mean that the Sierra Club could use our own tax money to buy up and lock us off of public lands??? I sure hope not.

Here is an editorial from the Tribune sent in by the Utah Taxpayers Association.
http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_2424847

I did a little research and it looks like it has a 65% chance of passing according to polls.

Do some research and get your friends to vote against this mis-named peice of legislation.
 

onetuff76

Guard Rail Tester
Location
Lehi
I have been wondering about the environmental issues tacked onto this bill, seems like they were pushing the clean water stuff a little to hard for it to be just that.
 

onetuff76

Guard Rail Tester
Location
Lehi
OK just read through it here's what I got out of it:
1. all funds for this will be open for proposals of usage by any non-profit organization
2. all amounts dispersed to organizations must be matched by 25% from private donors
3. funds are to be used to improve the environment and community facilities

So basically this could be good or bad for us. We'd need to get the non-profit org status with the IRS then get some private backers and we could do some serious good with maintaining and improving offroad trails. Seeing as how we are lacking the org and private backers this would put us at an extreme disadvantage to the greenies. I think the 25% private money was thrown in just to give them the one up on us. With the amount of money that seirra pulls in in dues they could easily pay for this, where we would seriously struggle to come up with this money. If it weren't for that I"m willing to be we could win every proposal with the state for the funds to help clean up trails as I think we have the state on our side for keeping trails open because of the amount of revenue that our sport generates from tourism and other aspects. So if this thing does get passed we've got alot of work to do! Work that we really should get busy and start doing anyways!
 

Skylinerider

Wandering the desert
Location
Ephraim
I'm voting no on this just because I don't see it helping anyone other than those who live in the Salt Lake Valley.
It's supposed to help with community centers and facilities? where?
There is $30 million earmarked for convention centers. Where? Salt Lake.
Utah doesn't end at point of the mountain, and I won't vote for a sales tax increase for all of utah when this sounds like it only affects Salt Lake County.
 

onetuff76

Guard Rail Tester
Location
Lehi
skylinerider said:
I'm voting no on this just because I don't see it helping anyone other than those who live in the Salt Lake Valley.
It's supposed to help with community centers and facilities? where?
There is $30 million earmarked for convention centers. Where? Salt Lake.
Utah doesn't end at point of the mountain, and I won't vote for a sales tax increase for all of utah when this sounds like it only affects Salt Lake County.
actually looks like its a state wide initiative
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
VOTE NO

PASS THIS ON TO EVERYONE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The devil is in the details.



Clean Air, Clean Water, Quality growth. Who would reasonably oppose
such a proposition? This is as American as motherhood, apple pie and
Old Glory.



Well, rest assured we are in fact, in favor of clean air, clean water,
and quality growth, but not when it is mandated by The Nature
Conservancy.



I invite you to read the full proposition, all seven pages of it. You
will find it at www.utahlands2004.org
(click on "Official Initiative Petition" - down near the bottom of the
left hand column of the page.) If you follow this link you may read
of many popular and influential people and organizations who support
this proposition. Don't be swayed by these endorsements simply because
they are well known and apparently intelligent people.



The text of the proposition itself may also be enticing to you. There
are many things in this proposition that any right thinking Utahn would
support. However, it is vague by design in most of the actual
implementation of these potential tax funds. You will note that there
is an outreach to almost every special interest in the state, including
hunters, farmers, ranchers, rural communities and outdoor recreational
enthusiasts of all types. These payoffs would gladly be received by
such potential beneficiaries, but the real winner in this proposition
is not the citizens of the State of Utah. It is the environmental
elitist organizations that can't wait to get their hands on Utah tax
money to further their restrictive causes.



Now here's the deal. This group is not a Utah group as the name would
imply. It is in fact a front for The Nature Conservancy of Fairfax
VA. The President of UFCWCAQG is a paid employee, (an Attorney) of
The Nature Conservancy. She told me so herself via email. She is from
Washington State, not a long time Utah resident, as she would have you
believe on the surface.



While I seldom officially endorse the conclusions of the Utah Taxpayers
Association, they have painstakingly reviewed the initiative and
enumerated 13 excellent reasons why Prop 1
should not be adopted.



To these I add my own concerns, not enumerated previously.


Land that has been set aside by a conservation easement is seldom
open to unrestricted public access including motorized recreation even
though the proposition clearly states that such access will be
assured. It is more of a guideline than a provision of the law,
similar to the Pirate's Code.
A citizen proposition is NOT the only way to preserve open
spaces, clean water, clean air and quality growth. We elect
representatives to the Utah State House and Senate to carefully
evaluate the budgetary needs of our state and appropriately prioritize
the use of scarce tax resources.


This proposition would permit any 501(c) 3 Charitable
organization to apply for taxpayer money and use it for any purpose
they deem appropriate under the sole limitation of protecting the
environment, open space, watershed, or natural habitat. These
organizations are not generally existent in the State, but for the
likes of the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance, The Wilderness Society,
Wasatch Mountain Club, Sierra Club, Utah Rivers Council, Boneville
Shoreline Trail Association, etc. If you have any inclination that
any of these organizations will favor motorized recreation, I would
invite you to simply visit their web sites and you will quickly see
their adamant unrelenting opposition.

Utahns have historically managed our public and private lands with
excellent professionalism. The fact that our state is already in near
pristine condition after over a hundred forty seven years of intense
human habitation is evidence of this. We have no need of the all
seeing eye and ever so controlling thumb of out of state organizations
who are attempting to regulate our state with the same expertise and
principles in use in New York City's Central Park.



Please reject this proposition. It is ill conceived and inappropriate
in almost every concept.



Robert Birkinshaw
 

Jeeptj98

Active Member
OCNORB said:
How come nobody is talking about this initiative?? It's called the Clean water, quality growth, clean air initiative. I downloaded and read the document last night. www.elections.utah.gov/UTAHCLEANWATER.pdf

I may be ignorant and unedumacated, but it looks to me like a way to tax us and then give the money to 501(c)'s! Does that mean that the Sierra Club could use our own tax money to buy up and lock us off of public lands??? I sure hope not.

Here is an editorial from the Tribune sent in by the Utah Taxpayers Association.
http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_2424847

I did a little research and it looks like it has a 65% chance of passing according to polls.

Do some research and get your friends to vote against this mis-named peice of legislation.


The thing that I was confused about was that Sportsman's Warehouse is supporting this Bill. They had signs for it in front of the doors.
 

Skylinerider

Wandering the desert
Location
Ephraim
onetuff76 said:
actually looks like its a state wide initiative

I realize that it is a state wide initiative, however as with most state wide taxes the ones who benefit most are those who live in Salt Lake. Have you traveled to Cedar City lately on I-15? that road is rediculous. Yet I-15 and 215 in Salt Lake get redone all the time. What other convention center can you name besides Salt Lake? How many Central and southern Utah towns have community centers? Not many.
 
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cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
Poor said:
The thing that I was confused about was that Sportsman's Warehouse is supporting this Bill. They had signs for it in front of the doors.

Call Sportsman and COMPLAIN!!!

Let them know you spend your $$$ and you don't support them... supporting Prop 1... I am... :D
 

OCNORB

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
Alpine
Wow! Glad I asked. I thought it looked like the kind of crap that the environazis would write.




Thanks for the material Curt--Very eloquent. I sent it to everyone I know. I hope everyone else will too.


READ MY LIPS -- NO NEW TAXES to give SUWA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

jtaoj

Registered User
Hi all,

I was listening to Radio West on KUER on the way home. Two of the initative's sponsors were on, debating two opponents. What a big pile of crap the sponsors were spewing. Their statements all sound so nice, but it was obvious that they are shooting to close more access.

The comments above in this thread are right on mark. This one is about to slip past the peoples of Utah. Why would we let a tax like this get through, and not find a way to fund education at a higher level? Why would we allow an un-elected body decide how to spend those monies and govern us? Bottom line is that if this passes, we have taken a massive step backwards...not this year, but very very soon.

Done ranting. I posted a link to this thread on the Xterra Owners Club www. I am the Treasurer of that club and thought I would just use the comments from this discussion to help spread the word there. Thanks.
 
P

pokeyYJ

Guest
Here is why I think that we should be careful to discount initiative 1, while it might give some power to enviro groups, it gives us power as well. BUT, we need to organize!!! Getting a 501(c)3 status is not very difficult, take for expample, any non-profit organization can (in therory) get 501(c)3 status. Like the RR4W could start something like the Red Rock 4 wheeler Foudation and get 501(c)3 status and apply for money to purchase open areas.

Like it or not, we are fighting the same enemy as the enviro's. And that is home developers. I think that Initiative 1 is aimed at home developers more than recreational 4 wheelers.

I encourage ALL clubs to look into obtaining 501(c)3 status, and voting yes on initiative 1.
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
jtaoj said:
...Done ranting. I posted a link to this thread on the Xterra Owners Club www. I am the Treasurer of that club and thought I would just use the comments from this discussion to help spread the word there. Thanks.

Awesome, we need to spread the "news" on this initiative everywhere...
 

cruiseroutfit

Cruizah!
Moderator
Vendor
Location
Sandy, Ut
pokeyYJ said:
...I encourage ALL clubs to look into obtaining 501(c)3 status, and voting yes on initiative 1.

Negative....

The purpose of 4x4 clubs and associations (as well as other motorized rec groups) is to USE the land. This initiative will only provide grant money to groups that plan on doing nothing but "preserving" the land... Not a good idea at all.

Why should a 4x4 group have to buy PUBLIC land in order to use it for PUBLIC uses?

Let the individual cities/counties buy their own "open-space" land as they have been sucsessfully doing for years...

Just my 2 cents... :D
 

GR4x4

Stop the MADNESS
Location
Orem
cruiseroutfit said:
VOTE NO

PASS THIS ON TO EVERYONE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The devil is in the details.

Cruiseroutfit is right VOTE NO. If you look in the details only a third of the money will go to the state. The rest goes to SUWA and other nonprofit orgs.. No good will come of this. The non profits will get to use the money to buy up land, close that land and then not be taxed on that land they bought (this all thanks to us being taxed more). There is more to it as well it is all in the wording that is used. like cruiser said (the devil is in the details)

VOTE NO
 

GR4x4

Stop the MADNESS
Location
Orem
You should look more into it PokeyYJ.
This is a very bad thing for us. Read between the lines the money has already been decided where it will go and it isn't to someone that wants to keep the land open. and like Cruiser said why should we have to buy our public lands they are already ours. And another thing why would you want to pay more taxes. Just get some of these clubs to start up a fundraiser and buy property that way. I would rather give a club money and know where it goes then pay more taxes and not know where most of it went.

VOTE NO

My .02 cents
 
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