- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
So are you ditching the dual precats cats? Seems like an easier solution. On my 2001 TJ I gave to pull the exhaust manifold to swap the oil pan... that is not ideal.
Jeep Nathan and Tanja's 99 XJ Build up
- Thread starter thenag
- Start date
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- Tags
- build thread
I have a 1999, it never had the precats. The appeal of the 2000+ manifold is that the exhaust can be routed around the front of the oil pan, so the yoke of the d60 doesn't smash the exhaust down pipe.
My exhaust has plenty of flanges, so I think I could drop the pan without pulling the manifold...
yeah yeah my rig is super complicated... (stuff a narrowed d60 under an xj... it'l be fun they said...)
Nathan
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So the header made a huge difference. I have only put a few miles on it but in our case it made a huge improvement.
So this is the Banks header for a 2000+ 4.0L.
Since I have a 1999, I don't have all the O2 sensors so I picked up a couple of nice stainless plugs for the holes.
Here is the restrictor plate that I needed to run the 2000+ OEM manifold on the 93 head, notice the carbon build up after just a few hundred miles, also notice the HAZ between #3 and #4. My guess is that #1,#2,#5,#6 could dissipate the exhaust heat since they were away from other exhaust ports, but #3 and #4 are so close that they got extra hot. I did not check the temperature of the exhaust manifold in the middle (#3,#4), just #1 and it was 680 degrees, I imagine the center of the manifold was hotter. And hopefully that is the cause of the "heat soak"/"heat sink" that would cause a #4 missfire.
Here are a few shots of the header and gasket, notice the much closer fit and it gets bigger than the exhaust ports
the exhaust and intake manifold share several bolts, and 4 of them are really impossible to get to. Technically you can install the exhaust and start the lower bolts then install the intake manifold, I have never been able to this due to the locating dowels on the head for the intake.
So I slotted the holes on the intake so I could more easily slide the manifold down with the exhaust in place.
Well that still wasn't enough since there was a mass of stainless tubing in the way, so I got even more tricky. For the 2 really really now even more impossible bolts I hung a couple of ratcheting wrenches on the bolts then carefully slid the intake on and tightened it (yeah I got 25ft/lbs on those bolts whatever) The wrenches do come off but were very very hard to get onto the bolts with the intake in the way. So I put the exhaust on, put the wrenches on the bolts, put the intake on, started all bolts, tightened the two bolts with the wrenches on them, removed the wrenches, tightened the rest of the bolts.
(you can see one of the locating dowels in this picture too)
I think that if/when I have to pull it off I will probably support the motor and remove the motor mount on that side, I think with the mount out of the way the bolts will be visible...
The improvement is enough I need to dyno the jeep again. Remember that the header removed a significant (self imposed) exhaust restriction and that is where the heat and performance improvement is coming from. The change to a header in most cases would probably not change too much.
So the lesson learned is that a stroker needs at least 2.25 inch exhaust.
Nathan
So this is the Banks header for a 2000+ 4.0L.
Since I have a 1999, I don't have all the O2 sensors so I picked up a couple of nice stainless plugs for the holes.
Here is the restrictor plate that I needed to run the 2000+ OEM manifold on the 93 head, notice the carbon build up after just a few hundred miles, also notice the HAZ between #3 and #4. My guess is that #1,#2,#5,#6 could dissipate the exhaust heat since they were away from other exhaust ports, but #3 and #4 are so close that they got extra hot. I did not check the temperature of the exhaust manifold in the middle (#3,#4), just #1 and it was 680 degrees, I imagine the center of the manifold was hotter. And hopefully that is the cause of the "heat soak"/"heat sink" that would cause a #4 missfire.
Here are a few shots of the header and gasket, notice the much closer fit and it gets bigger than the exhaust ports
the exhaust and intake manifold share several bolts, and 4 of them are really impossible to get to. Technically you can install the exhaust and start the lower bolts then install the intake manifold, I have never been able to this due to the locating dowels on the head for the intake.
So I slotted the holes on the intake so I could more easily slide the manifold down with the exhaust in place.
Well that still wasn't enough since there was a mass of stainless tubing in the way, so I got even more tricky. For the 2 really really now even more impossible bolts I hung a couple of ratcheting wrenches on the bolts then carefully slid the intake on and tightened it (yeah I got 25ft/lbs on those bolts whatever) The wrenches do come off but were very very hard to get onto the bolts with the intake in the way. So I put the exhaust on, put the wrenches on the bolts, put the intake on, started all bolts, tightened the two bolts with the wrenches on them, removed the wrenches, tightened the rest of the bolts.
(you can see one of the locating dowels in this picture too)
I think that if/when I have to pull it off I will probably support the motor and remove the motor mount on that side, I think with the mount out of the way the bolts will be visible...
The improvement is enough I need to dyno the jeep again. Remember that the header removed a significant (self imposed) exhaust restriction and that is where the heat and performance improvement is coming from. The change to a header in most cases would probably not change too much.
So the lesson learned is that a stroker needs at least 2.25 inch exhaust.
Nathan
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RogueJeepr
Here!
- Location
- Utah
Cool.
I know one day I'll just replacing the exhaust manifold on my XJ.
One thing I learned from my YJ after putting 3 of those in. Is to weld in a hi quality flex pipe (like ricers use) just before the cat. Even with a 4 banger. The engine moves alot in 4low (I put my action cam in the engine bay).
Really saved the manifold.
Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk
I know one day I'll just replacing the exhaust manifold on my XJ.
One thing I learned from my YJ after putting 3 of those in. Is to weld in a hi quality flex pipe (like ricers use) just before the cat. Even with a 4 banger. The engine moves alot in 4low (I put my action cam in the engine bay).
Really saved the manifold.
Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk
It worked enough to get me running, but the time money and effort into the plate, and the time money and effort into having MikeGyver cut a corner out of my oil pan were mistakes that could have been prevented. I typically hate re-re-doing things, I surprisingly don't feel that bad about this whole exhaust thing. (probably because it is pretty badass now, I was able to keep it in 5th gear going north east on 215 at 65mph)
Oh well it's not a hobby if you don't have to figure stuff out right?
So after putting a few hundred miles on the new header it is still working great. I could lose the "I may be slow but I can go anywhere" license plate frame, the jeep isn't fast but it has acceptable freeway acceleration now.
However I had a new little oil drip under the jeep, actually two right next to each other, one coming off the starter, the other the bottom of the oil pan.
I know that the oil pan gasket is not completely sealed, I am guessing the high exhaust/oil heat was not good for the gasket. The rear main seal may be leaking too, they are both new but high heat and I have a horrible time getting things to seal for some reason.
The nice thing is that the engine is still nice and clean so it was easy to find where the oil was coming from, it was coming from the distributor, not the distributor mounting gasket, it was coming from inside the distributor.
So according to the internet if oil is coming up the distributor the PCV system is clogged. So I picked up a new PCV elbow (again the one in there is less than a year old) and replaced the hose on it (since I had used air compressor hose and not vacuum hose to hook it up to the manifold).
Well with the new PCV elbow it still pushed oil out the distributor.
So I carefully marked and pulled the distributor and went to the parts store for a re-manufactured distributor, came home and carefully installed it, the rotor was in the same place as before. I cranked the engine, it didn't start. Then I spent the next hour or so doing the same thing and it wouldn't start. I randomly plugged in my obdII scanner and it gave a Cam Position Sensor error, so I looked closer at my new cam position sensor in the new distributor. There was a cracked piece of plastic and after looking at some pictures on the internet there was a small piece of metal missing. So I called the parts store to see if they had my core distributor still there, they did and I went down and grabbed my OEM sensor.
Since it was late I figured I would finish it in the morning.
In the morning I installed the distributor and was pretty sure my timing had moved. Due to the slot on the oil pump there in only 2 ways the distributor will go in if nothing has moved...
(upon later reflection I am guessing the oil pump bleed down over night since I left the distributor out all night)
So I put the distributor in and it didn't start, and then it didn't crank...
So after checking the starter fuse and relay I pulled the starter and took the starter to get checked, it was bad, I got a new starter.
Since I had just set the timing on the jeep when I put the stroker in I had a pretty good memory of how to set the timing, and I knew exactly where good directions were in my rebuild book.
Now when I got home I cranked the engine by hand to TDC, stuck the distributor in, and it cranked but didn't start, so I figured that I was 180 degrees out, because of course it would be.
cranked the engine by hand to get the distributor 180 the other way, re-installed and it started but didn't quite run right...
so looked at again and I had used the "2.5L" hole on the distributor not the "4.0L" hole, so I got that straightened out and it finally started and ran well.
So it took me 1.5 days to replace a distributor, however the good thing is that my starter was pretty close to failing and it died in my garage, which is always a good thing.
I also re-installed the spark plugs that are "one heat range colder" than OEM. I did this because even with non-ethonal fuel and the new header I still had the "heat soak" (or "heat sink") like issue where it would run crappy if I shut it off while hot and started it back up quickly.
Sorry no pics, if you want to see engine pics I am sure there are some nice ones a few posts back...
Nathan
However I had a new little oil drip under the jeep, actually two right next to each other, one coming off the starter, the other the bottom of the oil pan.
I know that the oil pan gasket is not completely sealed, I am guessing the high exhaust/oil heat was not good for the gasket. The rear main seal may be leaking too, they are both new but high heat and I have a horrible time getting things to seal for some reason.
The nice thing is that the engine is still nice and clean so it was easy to find where the oil was coming from, it was coming from the distributor, not the distributor mounting gasket, it was coming from inside the distributor.
So according to the internet if oil is coming up the distributor the PCV system is clogged. So I picked up a new PCV elbow (again the one in there is less than a year old) and replaced the hose on it (since I had used air compressor hose and not vacuum hose to hook it up to the manifold).
Well with the new PCV elbow it still pushed oil out the distributor.
So I carefully marked and pulled the distributor and went to the parts store for a re-manufactured distributor, came home and carefully installed it, the rotor was in the same place as before. I cranked the engine, it didn't start. Then I spent the next hour or so doing the same thing and it wouldn't start. I randomly plugged in my obdII scanner and it gave a Cam Position Sensor error, so I looked closer at my new cam position sensor in the new distributor. There was a cracked piece of plastic and after looking at some pictures on the internet there was a small piece of metal missing. So I called the parts store to see if they had my core distributor still there, they did and I went down and grabbed my OEM sensor.
Since it was late I figured I would finish it in the morning.
In the morning I installed the distributor and was pretty sure my timing had moved. Due to the slot on the oil pump there in only 2 ways the distributor will go in if nothing has moved...
(upon later reflection I am guessing the oil pump bleed down over night since I left the distributor out all night)
So I put the distributor in and it didn't start, and then it didn't crank...
So after checking the starter fuse and relay I pulled the starter and took the starter to get checked, it was bad, I got a new starter.
Since I had just set the timing on the jeep when I put the stroker in I had a pretty good memory of how to set the timing, and I knew exactly where good directions were in my rebuild book.
Now when I got home I cranked the engine by hand to TDC, stuck the distributor in, and it cranked but didn't start, so I figured that I was 180 degrees out, because of course it would be.
cranked the engine by hand to get the distributor 180 the other way, re-installed and it started but didn't quite run right...
so looked at again and I had used the "2.5L" hole on the distributor not the "4.0L" hole, so I got that straightened out and it finally started and ran well.
So it took me 1.5 days to replace a distributor, however the good thing is that my starter was pretty close to failing and it died in my garage, which is always a good thing.
I also re-installed the spark plugs that are "one heat range colder" than OEM. I did this because even with non-ethonal fuel and the new header I still had the "heat soak" (or "heat sink") like issue where it would run crappy if I shut it off while hot and started it back up quickly.
Sorry no pics, if you want to see engine pics I am sure there are some nice ones a few posts back...
Nathan
The ends of my steering assist ram were worn out and I had get my hydraulic hoses for the ram shortened since they used to run where the exhaust now runs. My steering box also leaked so I thought I would rebuild the box, get the lines shortened and install a new ram.
I have rebuilt steering boxes before but for some reason I nicked two of the purple rings that go on the power piston (two different rebuild kits...)
So after tracking down what I believe was the last rebuild kit in the valley I tried to use a engine piston ring compressor to get the piston in, it worked well. If you are having a hard time getting the Teflon rings installed I recommend trying this.
The steering seems fine, maybe a little less play while driving.
Nathan
I have rebuilt steering boxes before but for some reason I nicked two of the purple rings that go on the power piston (two different rebuild kits...)
So after tracking down what I believe was the last rebuild kit in the valley I tried to use a engine piston ring compressor to get the piston in, it worked well. If you are having a hard time getting the Teflon rings installed I recommend trying this.
The steering seems fine, maybe a little less play while driving.
Nathan
So I have the 1977 Eldorado Calipers in the rear, I bought new ones from one of the places that sells new ones.
My experience hasn't been good, I typically say that I can get the parking brake working well enough every year to pass inspection and other than that I usually don't have much of a parking brake. There is a reason that GM only made these calipers a few years, and that newer big vehicles still use a drum style parking brake (drum in hat)
Last time I had to take my grinder to the brake pads so I could get one more turn on the arm. (it has a hex fitting on it)
I got motivated to mess with it again, I read the adjusting directions for the 100th time.
So I got looking at it and the parking brake arm would travel almost all the way before it would start to engage the brake rotor.
(spring removed, I am guessing that the spring was fully collapsed at this point.)
So I made a new little bracket so the parking brake cable housing is further back from the arm
The rest of my system is actually pretty good. I should get some cables made, if you remember I made my cables by cutting them to length and crimping the pea on the end and hitting it with some 6011 rod. They have held but should be replaced. If anyone knows of a place that makes parking brake cables I would love to know of one that is local. (I found a couple places online, since I have functioning cables I could send them in and the could copy mine)
When I test fitted them before I painted the new brackets it was still a hard pull on the handle but I had plenty of range and it seems ok. I didn't try it on a hill or anything, just set the parking brake and let the clutch out.
Ok so here is the DIY bracket installed with the parking brake released.
Here is a picture of the parking brake engaged and actually holds the vehicle really well, notice the spring is not totally collapsed. Really well I set the brake gave it some gas and let the clutch out and it stalled!
So at this moment the parking brake works better than it ever has. Realistically my brackets could probably be shorter than they are. Everything is adjusted well, I have adjustment going both ways on the Y thing that the cables come together on.
(I know someone will claim I don't have them adjusted correctly, if so please come over and adjust them I really did read everything I could on them)
Nathan
*A couple weeks later the parking brake still works better than it ever has with the Eldo Calipers*
*a couple months later the parking brake still works better than ever!*
*18 months later I ended up going back to the stock bracket and grinding the arm a bit, see post #314*
My experience hasn't been good, I typically say that I can get the parking brake working well enough every year to pass inspection and other than that I usually don't have much of a parking brake. There is a reason that GM only made these calipers a few years, and that newer big vehicles still use a drum style parking brake (drum in hat)
Last time I had to take my grinder to the brake pads so I could get one more turn on the arm. (it has a hex fitting on it)
I got motivated to mess with it again, I read the adjusting directions for the 100th time.
So I got looking at it and the parking brake arm would travel almost all the way before it would start to engage the brake rotor.
(spring removed, I am guessing that the spring was fully collapsed at this point.)
So I made a new little bracket so the parking brake cable housing is further back from the arm
The rest of my system is actually pretty good. I should get some cables made, if you remember I made my cables by cutting them to length and crimping the pea on the end and hitting it with some 6011 rod. They have held but should be replaced. If anyone knows of a place that makes parking brake cables I would love to know of one that is local. (I found a couple places online, since I have functioning cables I could send them in and the could copy mine)
When I test fitted them before I painted the new brackets it was still a hard pull on the handle but I had plenty of range and it seems ok. I didn't try it on a hill or anything, just set the parking brake and let the clutch out.
Ok so here is the DIY bracket installed with the parking brake released.
Here is a picture of the parking brake engaged and actually holds the vehicle really well, notice the spring is not totally collapsed. Really well I set the brake gave it some gas and let the clutch out and it stalled!
So at this moment the parking brake works better than it ever has. Realistically my brackets could probably be shorter than they are. Everything is adjusted well, I have adjustment going both ways on the Y thing that the cables come together on.
(I know someone will claim I don't have them adjusted correctly, if so please come over and adjust them I really did read everything I could on them)
Nathan
*A couple weeks later the parking brake still works better than it ever has with the Eldo Calipers*
*a couple months later the parking brake still works better than ever!*
*18 months later I ended up going back to the stock bracket and grinding the arm a bit, see post #314*
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- Location
- West Jordan
Six States has a cable shop.
RogueJeepr
Here!
- Location
- Utah
I had them make me some custom e-brake cables for my 32. Worked great.
Got a quick question for ya;
I may need to bump-stop my front suspension an inch.
Anything you recommend ?
I'd like to feel like im not smacking frame when it bottoms out.
Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk
Got a quick question for ya;
I may need to bump-stop my front suspension an inch.
Anything you recommend ?
I'd like to feel like im not smacking frame when it bottoms out.
Sent from my H1611 using Tapatalk
I had forgotten that they do that, is it the parts place or the service place?
For coils two common/cheap things are somehow stack hockey pucks where the bump stop will hit, so on the bottom of the spring. I have about 2 dozen hockey pucks spread out over my 4 springs. The other is jam a bunch of tennis balls in the springs. For one inch you can get extended bump stops, my father in law has them in his tj.
Nathan
*I edited my parking brake post on the last page, more pics...*
Parts.
So in post #253 I discovered an aftermarket metal center console support for $50.
I have cardboard, a plasma cutter, welder, and some scrap metal... so I built my own.
Woo-Hoo no more wiggly center console. Here are some pics
Nope I didn't even paint it, I did scrub the center console, so now I have one clean part in the jeep...
Nathan
I have cardboard, a plasma cutter, welder, and some scrap metal... so I built my own.
Woo-Hoo no more wiggly center console. Here are some pics
Nope I didn't even paint it, I did scrub the center console, so now I have one clean part in the jeep...
Nathan
So since my parking brake works really well I decided that I could get some professionally made cables. My DIY shortened ones had served well, I only had one failure in 4 years.
Actually it is now in the Service place, some guy named John took care of it. Six States on 300 West.
Actually it is now in the Service place, some guy named John took care of it. Six States on 300 West.
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Adding to the maintenance I went through the Johnny Joints on the rear suspension. I felt I needed to replace the bushings in a few, so I decided to do all 6 joints on the rear.
This is a box of work. I do find it interesting that Currie sells the bushings 1 each, but clearly say 2 needed per joint.
Arms all cleaned up and ready for new bushings
servicing the Johnny Joints is pretty straight forward, It is almost easy if you have a press. I would think that you really have a hard time installing NEW bushings in the joints without a press (or without their $90 tool)
I didn't mess with the bushings on axle side lower control arm. Allegedly Clayton puts that rubber bushing there to help with vibration since the XJ doesn't have rubber body mounts (uni-body) but I don't have any bushings on the my front 3 link so... yeah...
I thought of this the other day. While removing my rear suspension links, the bolt on passenger side upper bolt is square in the middle of my muffler, I had to un-do 3 flanges and drop one cross member to move the exhaust to get the one bolt out... lol Nothing like sliding a 3 inch bolt out 1/2 an inch and hits something. (If I could install the bolt the other way I would have cut it but the bolt can only go in that direction)
Nathan
This is a box of work. I do find it interesting that Currie sells the bushings 1 each, but clearly say 2 needed per joint.
Arms all cleaned up and ready for new bushings
servicing the Johnny Joints is pretty straight forward, It is almost easy if you have a press. I would think that you really have a hard time installing NEW bushings in the joints without a press (or without their $90 tool)
I didn't mess with the bushings on axle side lower control arm. Allegedly Clayton puts that rubber bushing there to help with vibration since the XJ doesn't have rubber body mounts (uni-body) but I don't have any bushings on the my front 3 link so... yeah...
I thought of this the other day. While removing my rear suspension links, the bolt on passenger side upper bolt is square in the middle of my muffler, I had to un-do 3 flanges and drop one cross member to move the exhaust to get the one bolt out... lol Nothing like sliding a 3 inch bolt out 1/2 an inch and hits something. (If I could install the bolt the other way I would have cut it but the bolt can only go in that direction)
Nathan
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So I have mentioned that I (think) have a "heat soak" or "heat sink" issue that is fairly common with the 2000 and 2001 XJ's. (mine is 1999) If I get it up to temperature and then shut it off and start it back up within a few minutes it runs rough for a while and will sometimes trigger a cylinder #4 misfire. (the 2000 and 2001 xjs always get a #3) basically when you shut the motor down the heat just sits there and heats up the intake manifold and injectors and then when you start it back up the fuel vaporizes and causes it to run rough. (the reason this only affects 2000 and 2001 XJ's is the pre-cats under the intake and the small hood area, why I think I have it is a stroker and a header creating heat under the intake)(I have swapped injectors and spark plugs around and it stays at #4)
So this is just annoying for the most part, however last weekend on Rattlesnake the engine started to idle rough in the same way while crawling, so this needs to be fixed.
The best solution is to setup a delay timer on the electric fan and have the electric fan run for two minutes after shutting off the vehicle. I am not sure this would help while running, I do not know if the electric fan was running. However there are a few other things that are supposed to help; Hood vents (I have one of those), the other common modification is to wrap the injectors and fuel rail with heat resistant tape. It is $15.00 a roll so I figured I would give it a shot. So my injectors and fuel rail look they have a space suit on.
Installed
And I removed this heat shield, there is some debate on the internet that since it sits on top of the intake it just traps heat in the intake, without it air can flow freely around the intake.
I have also started running ethanol free fuel, so yeah if it quits doing it it could be one of 3 things that solved the problem.
Nathan
So this is just annoying for the most part, however last weekend on Rattlesnake the engine started to idle rough in the same way while crawling, so this needs to be fixed.
The best solution is to setup a delay timer on the electric fan and have the electric fan run for two minutes after shutting off the vehicle. I am not sure this would help while running, I do not know if the electric fan was running. However there are a few other things that are supposed to help; Hood vents (I have one of those), the other common modification is to wrap the injectors and fuel rail with heat resistant tape. It is $15.00 a roll so I figured I would give it a shot. So my injectors and fuel rail look they have a space suit on.
Installed
And I removed this heat shield, there is some debate on the internet that since it sits on top of the intake it just traps heat in the intake, without it air can flow freely around the intake.
I have also started running ethanol free fuel, so yeah if it quits doing it it could be one of 3 things that solved the problem.
Nathan
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Lifelong Jeeper
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Murray
I just filled up with my 4th ethanol free tank and have forgotten to check my mpg's until the other day. I'm not driving any different than I usually do and am averaging 4 mpg's better - going from 9.9 to 13.9. Starting in early winter, something was up with my Jeep that was killing mileage. Ever since I built it years ago it has always done around 11.5. But under 10, I was having a very hard time justifying it as a daily driver. I was ecstatic the other day to see it approaching 14, and now wonder if I'm kinder to the skinny pedal, where I can get it to go.
Anybody else reporting similar findings?
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RogueJeepr
Here!
- Location
- Utah
The new maverick by my work has "ethenal free gas" I've had one or two tanks of it but never mathed the mpg's. It does seem to run better though.
Dont need big tires to have fun.
Dont need big tires to have fun.