Pretty much answered my question why they just didn't put him in a car to control him. A solid what 6 min of him resisting getting in the car, when they finally do he pushes himself out the other side. Also answers why he ended up where he was. Still can't justify kneeling on his neck, but it more justifies him trying to control him by himself.
Protests
- Thread starter Tonkaman
- Start date
Pretty much answered my question why they just didn't put him in a car to control him. A solid what 6 min of him resisting getting in the car, when they finally do he pushes himself out the other side. Also answers why he ended up where he was. Still can't justify kneeling on his neck, but it more justifies him trying to control him by himself.
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
Why let a little thing called "context" get in the way of furthering an agenda? Wasn't it President Obama's Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel who said, "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste."?
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
That seems a little paraphrased from something much older than that? Churchill or similar?
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
Emmanuel is a hard core Liberal, do you really think he'd be quoting a pillar of Conservationism like Churchill?
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
I doubt that he'd give anyone credit. I'm sure it was an "original" thought by him. Truth is truth though no matter the source
Houndoc
Registered User
- Location
- Grantsville
Chris Stewart is correct about the dangers of division.
But there is danger blaming the divisiveness just on the 'radical anti-Americans who should just leave the country if they don't think like I do'.
If you really look at what a lot of the protests are calling for, they are things that as conservatives, with our beliefs in individual rights and limited government, we should find common ground in- concern about overuse of government force, over criminalization, militarized police, killings of kids playing with toy guns, people sleeping in their own beds etc. by law enforcement and of course regardless of your political views the choking death of George Floyd should be seen as repulsive. Even racial equality and civil rights was primarily a Republican issue until about the 1980s.
I also am bothered by the general idea that calling for reform of police abuses some how makes a person anti-cop or pro-crime. It is perfectly possible to support our officers and expect an overall higher standard.
It is disheartening to me that instead of seeking areas of agreement and working to solve those issues, people retreat to their corner and label the opponent (thug, Marxist, racist etc.). I guess that is just easier than actually admitting their are problems and allows us just to go about our lives with little thought or effort.
But there is danger blaming the divisiveness just on the 'radical anti-Americans who should just leave the country if they don't think like I do'.
If you really look at what a lot of the protests are calling for, they are things that as conservatives, with our beliefs in individual rights and limited government, we should find common ground in- concern about overuse of government force, over criminalization, militarized police, killings of kids playing with toy guns, people sleeping in their own beds etc. by law enforcement and of course regardless of your political views the choking death of George Floyd should be seen as repulsive. Even racial equality and civil rights was primarily a Republican issue until about the 1980s.
I also am bothered by the general idea that calling for reform of police abuses some how makes a person anti-cop or pro-crime. It is perfectly possible to support our officers and expect an overall higher standard.
It is disheartening to me that instead of seeking areas of agreement and working to solve those issues, people retreat to their corner and label the opponent (thug, Marxist, racist etc.). I guess that is just easier than actually admitting their are problems and allows us just to go about our lives with little thought or effort.
UNSTUCK
But stuck more often.
I doubt anyone (at least on here) would argue that policing could not use improvement. I'm no cop, but I'd be willing to bet that they are not trained to murder people. I don't know if the cop that killed Floyd is a murder or just a guy that let his emotions get the best of him. One thing I do know, is that he does not represent all cops. He is one cop. All professions have them. I'm sure you know a bad veterinarian. Does that make you a bad vet? Should we stop the continuing education of vets or maybe even bump it up so he becomes better?
On the other hand, if we can't train the 1% (?) of bad cops to be better, would it be okay to work towards making bad guys better? Or maybe we come down so hard on crime that it just becomes not worth it. Anyone have a problem with that? Just as an example, what if you knew you would eat a bullet by firing squad for committing any premeditated crime?
On the other hand, if we can't train the 1% (?) of bad cops to be better, would it be okay to work towards making bad guys better? Or maybe we come down so hard on crime that it just becomes not worth it. Anyone have a problem with that? Just as an example, what if you knew you would eat a bullet by firing squad for committing any premeditated crime?
Spork
Tin Foil Hat Equipped
- Location
- Saratoga Springs, UT
My issue is what do you consider police abuse? I don't believe everyone agrees on this. Some people want the police disarmed, all misdemeanor crimes ignored and believe the world will be rainbows and unicorns with all the peace. Do you believe your police agency is abusive? Why?
We had an incident in Saratoga Springs 6 years ago, this one
kutv.com
Every time there's some incident on the other side of the country there's some facebook post by someone that just read about it and wants to re-open the case for some social justice. Drag up ghosts of the past to placate guilt of the present or something. At least we've moved beyond the stupid kids at the crossroads with the Guy Fawkes marching in circles about the evils of police. The question comes to "Do I agree with the police action in this case?" Yes. I don't care if the sword was part of some cosplay outfit, I don't care what color the kid was, don't cooperate with the police, end up taking some swings at officers with your sword and then start running toward the Walmart with your sword in your hand you deserve to get shot. I don't care if they shoot in the front or the back, he made choices and they were poor. You want to tell your kid how to deal with the police? Great, maybe it's how your kid ought to deal with everyone from the police officer to the kid that can't get your order right at the McDonalds. If you think taking a swing at the kid at the McDonalds is proper I'm interested in how your meal is after they have your picture up on the wall saying don't serve this guy.
I believe protests at this point are just for your feelings. Nobody cares anymore what your cause is, it is noise in the background, it doesn't matter. If things get violent I don't have issues with them hauling your butt to jail it's a pointless activity and the cops have way more patience than I do if they are dealing with it.
We had an incident in Saratoga Springs 6 years ago, this one
Petition to reopen 2014 case of man killed by Utah police has over 355K signatures
Hundreds of thousands of people are calling on authorities to reopen the case of a man who was shot and killed by Utah police in 2014. KUTV. "Justice for Darrien Hunt - Reopen his case" on Change. org has garnered more than 355,000 signatures as of Tuesday morning. Hunt, 22, was shot multiple...
kutv.com
I believe protests at this point are just for your feelings. Nobody cares anymore what your cause is, it is noise in the background, it doesn't matter. If things get violent I don't have issues with them hauling your butt to jail it's a pointless activity and the cops have way more patience than I do if they are dealing with it.
- Location
- Never Far From Nowhere
The founders of Black Lives Matter are self described Marxists. Watch the video I posted, it’s the full interview where she says that. Black Lives Matter has Marxist ideological leanings that undoubtably stem from the fact that it’s founders are... Marxists! So I’m not “labeling my opponents” in some cowardly retreat. They are openly Marxists, so let’s start calling them what they call themselves.
And yes, I have a problem with Marxism. Yes, I’ve read Das Kapital and The Communist Manifesto (I have copies of each if you’d like some light summer reading!) and I studied Soviet history in college. Marxism, Marxist/Leninism, Communism; all that is bad for humanity and our not too distant past provides ample evidence of this.
What they are calling for is defunding police? Abolish Ice? Count on people to discipline with rainbows and unicorn farts.
Limited government? They want a socialist government which has its hand in every aspect of your life
Over criminalization? Unless its a felony they pretty much want zero criminalization (Which by the way we pretty much have here because all misdemeanors get plead to nothing anyway)
Militarized Police? Fully support that if you look at what the police have to deal with day to day. Force on Force 101 you have to have superior firepower to what you're going up against. Remember north hollywood in the 90's? Thats why the police are armed like they are now
Killing of kids? Really? no cop wants to kill a damn kid. But you buy your kid a life like toy gun or allow them to modify it to look like one be ready to accept the consequences.
People sleeping in their own beds? This one constantly being brought up really bothers me. It was an accident and a tragedy. The cop made a bad decision (while taking fire) and it cost someone their life. It wasn't malicious, it wasn't racially motivated. It was poor training (lets defund them) and poor decision making.
I don't think anyone would argue the officer was in the wrong. However as new video of the incident has surfaced the situation wasn't as clear cut as previously portrayed
Not saying at all that someone saying reform is needed makes them anti-cop. I myself fought for some reform while I was still employed as an officer. Some stuff needs to change but not the stuff thats being called for.
However this movement is VERY anti-cop and clearly states that all over the place. I mean "We know that police don’t keep us safe" really? ACAB, 1312? **** the police? All pigs must die? Yeah don't seem very anti-cop to me at all.
As Stephen said they are self proclaimed marxist.
Have you seen ANY of the interactions with these BLM folks where anyone tries to have a conversation with them about a view different than theirs?
The IMMEDIATELY just start calling them a racist, and start their, no trump, no kkk, no facist usa chant. The problem is you cannot have a conversation with this group. It's their way or you're a racist.
Now if you look at supreme leader mendenhall down their in SLC and her BS policy change that one specifically directly contradicts state code.
First off most of those are not "new" policy. They are just worded slightly different so she can try and appease the outrage mob.
However one in particular is going to get cops killed, sued or wrongly thrown in prison.
The only thing these "changes" are going to do is make good cops quit, and shitty cops stay because they can't make the same money doing anything else, because most of them are shitty at all the other jobs they do in addition to being a cop.
I know a lot of good cops that have already turned in papers to resign or retire, this trend is going to continue. The only thing this is going to do is exacerbate the problem, good cops are leaving, no ones going to apply so you're going to be left with shitty cops that will be working lots of overtime and getting burned out.
I'm just glad I saw this writing on the wall two years ago and already bounced
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Seattle City Council move to abolish police department with new bill
Seattle lawmakers want to abolish the city’s police force and replace it with a “community-led” safety prevention program, according to proposed legislation released Friday. Arguing that the Seattl…
nypost.com
Seattle lawmakers want to abolish the city’s police force and replace it with a “community-led” safety prevention program, according to proposed legislation released Friday.
Arguing that the Seattle Police Department “perpetuates racism and violence” and upholds “white supremacy culture,” the Seattle City Council moved to redirect cash to a non-profit, civilian-led “Department of Community Safety & Violence Prevention” — and offered a “blueprint” on how to defund the police, according to the resolution.
Under the bill, cops would be replaced by “community-led activities” and organizations focused on “housing, food security, and other basic needs” along with “culturally-relevant expertise rooted in community connections,”
To gain police department funding, groups must show they are “well-versed in de-escalation skills” along with “trauma-informed, gender-affirming, anti-racist praxis” and are “committed to hiring staff from the communities they serve,” according to the proposal.
This has to be fake news right? This can't really be the world we live in. Someone please wake me up.
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
Seattle City Council move to abolish police department with new bill
Seattle lawmakers want to abolish the city’s police force and replace it with a “community-led” safety prevention program, according to proposed legislation released Friday. Arguing that the Seattl…
Seattle lawmakers want to abolish the city’s police force and replace it with a “community-led” safety prevention program, according to proposed legislation released Friday.
Arguing that the Seattle Police Department “perpetuates racism and violence” and upholds “white supremacy culture,” the Seattle City Council moved to redirect cash to a non-profit, civilian-led “Department of Community Safety & Violence Prevention” — and offered a “blueprint” on how to defund the police, according to the resolution.
Under the bill, cops would be replaced by “community-led activities” and organizations focused on “housing, food security, and other basic needs” along with “culturally-relevant expertise rooted in community connections,”
To gain police department funding, groups must show they are “well-versed in de-escalation skills” along with “trauma-informed, gender-affirming, anti-racist praxis” and are “committed to hiring staff from the communities they serve,” according to the proposal.
This has to be fake news right? This can't really be the world we live in. Someone please wake me up.
This will be a bloodbath
- Location
- Grantsville, Utah
A legislator introduced the bill. That doesn't mean it will gain support or pass.Seattle City Council move to abolish police department with new bill
Seattle lawmakers want to abolish the city’s police force and replace it with a “community-led” safety prevention program, according to proposed legislation released Friday. Arguing that the Seattl…
Seattle lawmakers want to abolish the city’s police force and replace it with a “community-led” safety prevention program, according to proposed legislation released Friday.
Arguing that the Seattle Police Department “perpetuates racism and violence” and upholds “white supremacy culture,” the Seattle City Council moved to redirect cash to a non-profit, civilian-led “Department of Community Safety & Violence Prevention” — and offered a “blueprint” on how to defund the police, according to the resolution.
Under the bill, cops would be replaced by “community-led activities” and organizations focused on “housing, food security, and other basic needs” along with “culturally-relevant expertise rooted in community connections,”
To gain police department funding, groups must show they are “well-versed in de-escalation skills” along with “trauma-informed, gender-affirming, anti-racist praxis” and are “committed to hiring staff from the communities they serve,” according to the proposal.
This has to be fake news right? This can't really be the world we live in. Someone please wake me up.
The article irks me by implying all of the lawmakers are pushing for it.
Jinx
when in doubt, upgrade!
- Location
- So Jordan, Utah
Sounds like turning power over to local warlords...Seattle City Council move to abolish police department with new bill
Seattle lawmakers want to abolish the city’s police force and replace it with a “community-led” safety prevention program, according to proposed legislation released Friday. Arguing that the Seattl…
Seattle lawmakers want to abolish the city’s police force and replace it with a “community-led” safety prevention program, according to proposed legislation released Friday.
Arguing that the Seattle Police Department “perpetuates racism and violence” and upholds “white supremacy culture,” the Seattle City Council moved to redirect cash to a non-profit, civilian-led “Department of Community Safety & Violence Prevention” — and offered a “blueprint” on how to defund the police, according to the resolution.
Under the bill, cops would be replaced by “community-led activities” and organizations focused on “housing, food security, and other basic needs” along with “culturally-relevant expertise rooted in community connections,”
To gain police department funding, groups must show they are “well-versed in de-escalation skills” along with “trauma-informed, gender-affirming, anti-racist praxis” and are “committed to hiring staff from the communities they serve,” according to the proposal.
This has to be fake news right? This can't really be the world we live in. Someone please wake me up.
Seattle soon to = Afganistan...
I hope it passes they deserve it, I also hope all the like minded folk move to Seattle to enjoy what they created.
I don't like to comment on "grown-up" threads as I try to keep my focus on rock crawling but I just have to say I always appreciate your insight on this situation since you were a LEO. This is such a strange time!
- Location
- The Land Northward (Bountiful), Utah
RME right now.
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
They always do. Interesting pattern wouldn't you say?
Willing to bet most of them are Cali transplants up there in the NW. Path of destruction and parasitism. (not to blanket all Cali transplants, you decent ones know who you are)
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
I'm SURE UT was a culture shock from the East Coast. Are you saying the East Coast is mucho worser than when you left? What would you attribute that to? I grew up here. Thought I wanted to get out of here as fast as I could. I've had a few options to move elsewhere on someone else's dime. Not sure I'd leave but SLC is NOT what I'd like it to be. (I'd like to hang out in Malad or Richfield or similar in my remaining years. Those folks would see me as an outsider (understandably) but I LIKE what those types of towns represent. They aren't "convenient" enough for the "progressives" (not sure what happened to Moab... but that's a different story)?