- Location
- Sandy, Ut
If you guys are not already, follow our movement on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/ProtectAmericanForkCanyon
https://www.facebook.com/ProtectAmericanForkCanyon
Snowbird expansion in Mineral Basin
- Thread starter Kevin B.
- Start date
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Don't be fooled by this talk of avalanche guns... Snowbird wants to build new lifts, take over public property (by swapping for useless land in SL County) and eventually have a gondola from Tibble Fork Reservoir (maybe they'll just turn it into a parking lot) that drags people up to their mega resort. It's been no secret they've been quietly buying up parcels in the canyon, now they are working to get enough property to commercially develop. Turns out much has been going on under the radar, Cedar Hills mayor seeking funding to study the gondola (presumably at the request/blessing of Snowbird).
If we don't stop this in its tracks, the North Fork Road is going to be paved into Mineral Basin, Tibble Fork will be a gondola lift parking lot and OHV's will be long from the canyon much like happened in Big & Little Cottonwood Canyons. Let's make some noise about this!
If we don't stop this in its tracks, the North Fork Road is going to be paved into Mineral Basin, Tibble Fork will be a gondola lift parking lot and OHV's will be long from the canyon much like happened in Big & Little Cottonwood Canyons. Let's make some noise about this!
sixstringsteve
Well-Known Member
- Location
- UT
I saw 3 tour busses headed up that direction about 5 days ago. They were all empty, which seemed weird to me.
jentzschman
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Sandy, Utah
If only we could get a LLC or some other type of organization to buy key parcels of land that would put Snowbird in a huge bind trying to develop.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Snowbird owns everything they can, to the point they are now wanting/needing to trade parcels. However, the parcels they offer for trade have absolutely ZERO value to the motorized community and really don't have any value beyond "watershed", meaning if Snowbird had a use for them... they wouldn't be trading them.
If this swap goes through, we will lose OHV/4x4 route access on Mary Ellen Gulch, the Live Yankee Mine spur, Miller Hill and even further loss of access in Mineral Basin.
I could really use some help from a graphic guru to overlay Snowbirds wants, Snowbirds assets, other private assets and the exact routes on the ground. I know we will lose the following if the swap happens:
I apologize for my rudimentary map markings. I'm working on getting a high quality digital version of the same map that we can hopefully overlay with Google Earth and answer the questions I've posed.
jentzschman
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Sandy, Utah
It's getting old, the whole power of the damn dollar. I get it, I do, the dollar makes the world run, but when that damn green piece of paper trumps all else, it's a problem. Guess the old adage is true: The love of money is the root of all evil... 
scoutabout
None
Can you email what you have and I'll make maps like the 5MP ones we did years ago.
It's getting old, the whole power of the damn dollar. I get it, I do, the dollar makes the world run, but when that damn green piece of paper trumps all else, it's a problem. Guess the old adage is true: The love of money is the root of all evil...
Money is the root of good as well. We don't like what's happening? Let's stop it with our own efforts and financial support.
This has been Snowbird's plan for a long time, and they're slowly chipping away at the obstacles. They asked for a roller coaster in the canyon, so now a tram doesn't seem so unreasonable.
All you guys that enjoy AF Canyon should get involved. We should have response teams up the canyon every weekend making all the 4x4 users aware of this problem and how we can join together to solve it. Where are the moto/atv guys on this? Is USA-ALL still even in business? Is this on the U4WDA radar? Any actual resources from these orgs working on this?
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Will do. AFCV is supposed to be getting us higher resolution maps, I'm meeting with them next week.
Ideally I'd love the following layers
Base map with all actual routes highlighted
Layer with routes the FS recognizes
Layer with Snowbird/private properties
Layer with Snowbirds new wants
scoutabout
None
Right on. The FS should have the first three in their GIS data to be able to pop out a map within a few minutes. Not the kind of thing they'd do for average Joe off the street, but someone mentioned they had a friend in one of the districts? I'm too far out of the loop to know anyone useful at this point. I know I have a version from 7 years ago, but it looks like some private boundaries have changed since then.
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
It is on U4 radar and we'll be talking about this along with a few other land use things this evening at our meeting.
scoutabout
None
Came back to add a call out for Skylinerider Curt Hall, he has experience manipulating GIS data and making maps and experience as an employee with the BLM. Or someone from the new group can use a contact at any district office to get a copy of the data we'd like to have.
Also adding to the layers, the original USGS surveys and past routes we have already marked. I think it'll be surprising to people to see what's ALREADY been lost in AF alongside what is at imminent risk of being lost now.
Well that would be great. Some help getting this map data would be great. Is Marlin or someone from LP4W going to be at the meeting? Someone hit up Alan Taylor and get him to stop by and see Stansfield.
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
Efforting Alan already.
I'll try to drag Marlin/Lone Peak into this as well (good idea).
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scoutabout
None
Anything productive from the meeting? I have the USGS 1970's survey quad and the 2008 MVMU road/trail map on layers. That would be the latest designated routes map. (http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5415137.pdf). So all we need is a private property map update and a map of the proposed swap or other proposed changes.
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
We do have some excellent people on it. We do plan to work with the Facebook group "Protect and Preserve American Fork Canyon" to provide a single point of contact and dissemination of information. We still need to coordinate that with the group's administrators and such. Hopefully U4 can bring value by helping to promote events (service projects, letter writing parties, etc) through our contact network. I've probably shared more than I should but like to get some information out there to let people know we are aware and working on it.
There are a few other land use issues in the upcoming 2-3 weeks that we will make our members aware of also. I'll be publishing that as I can this weekend.
(traveling weekend for me....)scoutabout
None
Yes hopefully U4 can bring some value. You've said too much? How can too much be said about an open meeting?
Anyway.
Here's a map showing the USGS base layer, 2008 motorized vehicle use map and the proposed land swap. It should be considered incomplete as my source for the proposed swap land doesn't show the entire area and more might be included. It'd be nice to get some digital files from one of the many contacts and sources. If it goes through MEG is gone and more of Mineral Basin is gone, and it's one step closer to Snowbird being able to build their roller coaster in the canyon.
http://www.jacksonian.org/af_map.gif
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- Location
- Sandy, Ut
We do have some excellent people on it. We do plan to work with the Facebook group "Protect and Preserve American Fork Canyon" to provide a single point of contact and dissemination of information. We still need to coordinate that with the group's administrators and such. Hopefully U4 can bring value by helping to promote events (service projects, letter writing parties, etc) through our contact network. I've probably shared more than I should but like to get some information out there to let people know we are aware and working on it.
There are a few other land use issues in the upcoming 2-3 weeks that we will make our members aware of also. I'll be publishing that as I can this weekend.
We (PPAFC) would love to get U4WDA involved. I gave Sgt. a couple of immediate needs at the OSRC, touch base and see if he's had a chance to get something drafted.
And for everyone, check out americanforkcanyon.com for updates!
- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
Good deal. Just wanted to touch base as a courtesy. We'll move fwd with our plans to point to this group and maximize resources.
As most of you are aware I have worked for Snowbird Resort for the past 28 years. Obviously I have a deep passion for the work I do and the company I work for. As some of you also know, and also know that I share a very deep passion for recreation. I grew up in American Fork Canyon. 30 plus years I have enjoyed the canyon from hunting, ATV riding and wheeling. I just spent most of yesterday in Utah County at a Chamber of Commerce event where I had the opportunity to speak with over 100 individuals regarding multiple facets of Snowbird including the American Fork project. I can honestly tell you that 99% of the individuals we spoke with not only supported the project, but were excited to hear what was being planned. Out of all the individuals we spoke with, many were ATV riders, Horseback riders and wheelers just like you and I. I would encourage you to find out more about what is being proposed rather than reacting to what others are "thinking" is happening.
I just spoke with Dave Fields and he would like to take the time along with Bob Bonar to speak with our offroad community about Snowbirds involvement in American Fork Canyon. Snowbird is very open to addressing any and all concerns.
If I can be of any assistance during this time frame, please let me know.
I just spoke with Dave Fields and he would like to take the time along with Bob Bonar to speak with our offroad community about Snowbirds involvement in American Fork Canyon. Snowbird is very open to addressing any and all concerns.
If I can be of any assistance during this time frame, please let me know.
- Location
- Vehicular limbo
I've read the Mountain Accord and AFCVision websites. I've seen the signs posted by Snowbird where 100-year-old trails cross their new property. I've seen what's happened in upper Mineral Basin and the entire Little Cottonwood Canyon. Can you show me where I can find out what Snowbird actually wants to do with the rest of AFC and where that differs from what it looks like they're doing?
I don't mean to put you on the spot, and I appreciate you stepping up, but I think you have rose colored glasses on. I'd love to be wrong about what Snowbird wants for AFC, can you demonstrate that I am? Can you or some other Snowbird rep provide specific assurances that trails we enjoy will not be closed? That Snowbird won't be paving/blading roads to encourage even more users in an already over-used canyon, and working behind the scenes with the FS to implement even more ways to make money off those users? That trams and avalanche cannons and other signs of development won't ruin the character of the upper canyon? Because that's what I think Snowbird wants, and I'm basing that opinion on the information being released by Snowbird on their AFCVision web site. If you're going to encourage us to "find out more about what is being proposed rather than reacting to what others are thinking is happening", I'd like to encourage you to provide the location of information contradicting what we're thinking is happening.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Was the public invited to this event? Where was it advertised? This is the absolute first I've heard of this meeting and I've been in contact with the AFC Vision, FS, Snowbird (Jason Goates passed my info along to Mr. Fields to set up a meeting, no contact yet) as well as the Cedar Hills Mayor. Not a single word or invite from any of them and NONE of our PPAFC staff, U4WDA, ATV clubs, etc heard a single thing about this. I can invite 100 polygamists to my house and 99% of them will support polygamy.
I spent yesterday meeting with Utah 4x4 clubs, AFC interest groups (4x4, hiking, photo, mining, etc) and the Forest service, none of which had ANY knowledge of said C of C event nor were invited. Where was this advertised or solicited. We have a 'Protect AFC' FaceBook page with 2500 and growing AFC users that are not in support of public land being privatized and thus public land users particularly motorized users being locked out. Furthermore we are not in support of the canyon getting additional "development" paved by this land transfer.
Where can we hear about it Shawn? We are having to pry, beg and plead for tidbits of info and everything we find does nothing but confirm what we are "thinking". The Forest Service was super helpful yesterday with maps, updates and back ground. We have emailed dozens of Utah County commissioners, mayors, councilmen, etc. Some knew of it, some had never heard of it and none were up to speed on any latest plans.
What we are "thinking":
A. Snowbird wants 416 acres of land in AFC, comprised of 5 parcels, 3 of which have motorized routes crossing and/or ending on them. In exchange, Snowbird is offering up land outside of AFC with zero motorized access and zero threat of loss of access by hikers, etc. This all done on a plan that was scoped to have 0% to do with AFC and Utah County and thus, wasn't on the radar of anyone involved in AFC and or Utah County. In fact until the final Mountain Accord plan came out, the parcels in AFC were not even publicly identified. Correct or no?
B. Snowbird has expressed interest since the 90's of having a tram, gondola or similar to Tibble Fork Reservoir, that directly from Mr. Bonar's mouth. More recently that same gondola was proposed to the State of Utah for study funding. That funding was granted albeit $100k which became the AFC Vision, chartered to study among other items... future transportation in the canyon i.e. the potential for a gondola. Correct or no?
C. Snowbird has systematically purchased land with existing and historical motorized access throughout the canyon including routes (Miller Hill) that in fact cross their land but return to public land, thus maintain a right-of-way for public users. Despite that ROW, they have signed it to threaten closure in the future. Correct or no?
D. Snowbird has signed part or all of their AFC holdings with "No Trespassing" signs, in fact hundreds of yards away from their current property borders. This confirmed by the Lone Peak 4x4 Club and the Forest Service in their site visit last month. It was reported by Snowbird that this was simply for over the snow traffic and all or part of the signs were removed as of yesterday. Correct or no?
So where are we (am I) thinking wrong? I really appreciate your help and reply Shawn and I can assure you that if we are off on these points, we will correct it and only pass the pertinent information along to our growing group.
I would ABSOLUTELY love a direct link with these gentleman and perhaps that would solve all of our answers in one fail swoop. Mr. Fields didn't reply to Jason (Goates) solicitation for an earlier meeting with us and I know the PPAFC gents have been trying to align schedules. Perhaps you can help us connect the dots as soon as this week? That would be killer to get some plans right from the horses mouth.