- Location
- Vehicular limbo
Aren't the routes behind the Snowbird gate at the top of Mineral Basin historic? Or was that always privately owned?
Snowbird expansion in Mineral Basin
- Thread starter Kevin B.
- Start date
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Yuuup
RogueJeepr
Here!
- Location
- Utah
Think about what it dosent say (Jeeps) . In my opinion its the ATVs that have ruined AF canyon.
jmaxj
This sucks!!!!
- Location
- were ever i feel i need to be.....
This! It's exactly why I haven't been up there in years. They've ruined that canyon for me. Now I'm not against ATV's in any way I ride them myself, it just seems like the people up AF are just riding wherever or however they want. No trail respect or etiquette what so ever.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
When was that taken?
If that is the clump of signs photographed by the Lone Peak 4-Wheelers on their recon trip with the FS... those signs have been removed. They were intended to keep snowmobiles and ATV's off the area they are back-country/Cat skiing in MEG
Taken Thursday. They are still there.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Can you please provide approx. GPS coord?
40*37'25.45" N 111*37'47.81" W Coords are off Google Earth, so I hope they're close.
Sign is posted on the tree marked by the tag. 8-10 other signs on posts leaning against the tree.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
Thank. Meeting with Snowbird tomorrow night, will address
Johnny Quest
Web Wheeler
- Location
- West Jordan
Johnny Quest
Web Wheeler
- Location
- West Jordan
we pretty much got run off the trail this weekend by a couple of wreckless UTV groups; passing on the left, into opposing traffic with no warning in a VERY dusty section of trail. If their SxS and my 40s made contact, it wouldnt have been pretty. People are in such a damn hurry, they put themselves and everyone else in danger.
Johnny Quest
Web Wheeler
- Location
- West Jordan
I didn't have time to react until they were past me.
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
And we wonder why we lose so much as a motorized community. It has moved beyond apathy an onto vengeance
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- Location
- Sandy, Ut
I attended and spoke at the meeting. It was beneficial in part. While Snowbird didn't lay any plans on us they did confirm every rumor (of at least plans/intentions) we had previously heard including lifts, gates, locks and even the dreaded gondola at Tibble Fork. Bob Bonar even discussed a future land trade for a parcel at/near Tibble Fork presumably for tram/gondola operations. "All ideas" of course but enough of ideas they have lobbied hard for the land and they have proposed expansion to the Forest Service... somehow they had a plan to present the Forest Service in 2011 but not one they could share beyond "ideas" with us?
"We don't have a proposal, we don't have a line on the map". But again, there is this one
It was very beneficial to hear direct from Mr Bonar and I do appreciate him coming into the gauntlet to hear our questions and concerns. He is a smart gentleman, has done well for himself and Snowbird and he has grand ideas that he isn't exactly shy to bring up.
Now, for the public routes on current Snowbird land and future land (if the swap were to be approved).
On one hand, Bob says and I quote:
"Snowbird's ideas will not conflict with current uses in American Fork Canyon, Snowbird supports legal motorized uses" (see slide presentation) & "we think this concept can be done right without conflicting with existing uses" (see minute 26:15 in YouTube video of presentation)
BUT when I corrected Mr. Bonar's assertion that there is no legal motorized access to the properties they want to trade (see minute 34:45 in YouTube video of presentation in You brought up legal routes that cross their property he indicated "to thoroughly discuss that we would have to get all the attorneys in the room, but you can't get there without going on our property". When pressed by another commenter to see if it was their intent to close access, he said he wanted to sit down with stakeholders and find solutions. This is where we are at. Myself, MBryson and several others are working to arrange a meeting to look over maps and see if we can't find a solution directly with Snowbird. We are aligning schedules now.
Beyond motorized users there is plenty to be concerned about. Utah County water shares being purchased to pump into LCC for snowmaking, loss of free access for skiers, snowboarders, bikers, hikers, etc. Additional user impacts on roads and trails. Parking, etc. Obviously my most pressing issue is the motorized routes, PPAFC has some other great folks working on their particular angles. Keep an eye on the PPAFC Facebook page & AmericanForkCanyon.com to learn more and GET INVOLVED AND BE HEARD.
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- Location
- Sandy, Ut
A better article on the subject imo:
http://www.heraldextra.com/news/loc...cle_3ba5a769-2ed9-5d22-a0c1-0d82cd885909.html
http://www.heraldextra.com/news/loc...cle_3ba5a769-2ed9-5d22-a0c1-0d82cd885909.html
Tonkaman
Well-Known Member
- Location
- West Jordan
BOO!
- Location
- Sandy, Ut
??? Snowbird is potentially shutting down private property. Your completely confusing the subject at hand. This isn't a 4x4 vs. ATV issue, at all. It discourages me to think this is the only constructive input you expend on this issue
Again, why. Can you point to a SINGLE closure in AFC that was inspired by he problem your describing. I'm not saying speeds are a non-issue, just that they have nothing to do with the issue at hand and furthermore historically they have had nothing to do with closures in the canyon. Please enlighten me if you know otherwise.
Call them and bring it up, it's not even an issue remotely on my radar.
There was a point in there?
Be a little forward thinking here. What if they do close down AFC to motorized traffic or just to those offending ATV's as you would love to see here. Where would they then recreate? In your twisted plot do you really think they are going to park their ATV's and quit recreating? Of course not, it will simply further corral a growing number of users onto less and less routes and soon you will be complaining about 5MP being "ruined" by fast moving ATV's You'll be griping about how dangerous it was to drive the PET in your vintage car when SxS's were blasting around you. Where do we draw the line? If they need some policing that is a mutually exclusive issue to the current situation that impacts any and all motorized users in the canyon. It's completely naive to think we can close motorized access at X without impacting Y when your talking about the two of the most used places for users in the Wasatch Front.
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- Location
- Bountiful, land of rocks
My take is pretty similar to Kurt's. Good on Snowbird for trying to communicate. They do OWN land in the areas they want to develop. They CAN develop to a certain extent what they want whether we want a seat at the table or not. We've been invited to sit at the table. We're likely at the kids table but we'll have to take what we can get and make the most of it. Even if we were to not win everything in Am Fork, it would be CRITICAL to make our voice heard at this time for other upcoming issues. It did sound like there could be some negotiation and we'll need to run down that road as FAR as we can. We as a community will need to speak with a similar voice in GREAT numbers. That has, can and will make a difference. Good on Bob Bonar for showing up at a meeting he KNEW he was going to get hammered in. I respect him and will have to take him at his word on things until he/Snowbird proves otherwise. He will do what's good for Snowbird/Bob Bonar. We just need to help him be influenced on what is good for us is good for them. That will take numbers of people.
There are a LOT of people with ModStock's "attitude". (I'm honestly not that far from that myself but dammit we have laws, precedent and historic access on our side in a lot of cases here) It's his and I appreciate him expressing it. He's obviously passionate and I hope we can give him and people like him enough information to write a letter or email or show up to a cleanup or service project in a way that will be noticed and could make a difference somewhere. (ModStock, I'm not trying to throw you under the bus here. I hope you're cool with my comments. You're not the only one who feels like you do and I value your opinion and hope to get feedback from you while we go through this process. I think you and your opinion could really help out) If we got 50 ModStock people to write a letter or show up at a demonstration, that's numbers. We need every number we can get.
There are a LOT of people with ModStock's "attitude". (I'm honestly not that far from that myself but dammit we have laws, precedent and historic access on our side in a lot of cases here) It's his and I appreciate him expressing it. He's obviously passionate and I hope we can give him and people like him enough information to write a letter or email or show up to a cleanup or service project in a way that will be noticed and could make a difference somewhere. (ModStock, I'm not trying to throw you under the bus here. I hope you're cool with my comments. You're not the only one who feels like you do and I value your opinion and hope to get feedback from you while we go through this process. I think you and your opinion could really help out) If we got 50 ModStock people to write a letter or show up at a demonstration, that's numbers. We need every number we can get.
Thanks Kurt and Marc for meeting with them. You guys rock! I make it up to AFC maybe once a year but I'd still be sad to see it closed. I agree that it is admirable for Bob Bonar to even meet with you and I hope it's indicative of some desire to come to a resolution. I guess we'll see