Thoughts on open carry?

[ozzy702]

I don't do it but it doesn't bother me.

How does one "abuse" a right?

Exactly. The only reason that people become nervous around someone with a firearm is because it's not a social norm. I'll be honest, if I see someone open carrying and they look clean cut and carry themselves with intelligence it never gives me the slightest concern, in fact I like seeing people carry because I know that statistically they are a good person and can address a threat if needed.

On the flipside if I see someone wearing baggy clothing, dressed like a thug, carrying themselves like a threat then the thought "are they packing" is always on my mind and I stay situationally alert.

I see no problem with sidearms and while I prefer not to see it because it scares people, I support open carry of long arms as well.

Is a right really a right if you can't exercise it?


I personally will only open carry while outdoors and would prefer to go unknown in public so that I'm not seen as a threat and have the greatest likelihood of stopping a threat unscathed.

 

[Herzog]

A "right" is just what the government wants to define as one, nothing more...
And evidently there are a lot of stupid people in this country who vote.

A government only exists if people believe in it. Sadly, those who vote seem to believe in it.

 

[MikeGyver]

^ I respectfully disagree. Some rights big bother has zero say in, the 2nd is one of them. Big brother does not give me the right to defend myself, God does.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..."

The right to or the ability to? My point is you can still be put in jail by man or forced to do things, justified or not... If your free agency has been taken from you, you may be 'right' but that hasn't really served you well (in this life anyway).
Ultimately rights are just an idea agreed upon by the majority, so slowly but surely "rights" can and do change, if you disagree you're probably not looking back very far. So as contrary as it sounds, I'd say rights can be abused.

I think open carrying in public is stupid and unnecessary and just makes you a target and makes a lot of people uncomfortable. This isn't Somalia, quit showing off your arsenal. It's not helping anything.

 

[Marsh99]

I don't mind open carry. What I think is funny is people are comfortable when that can't see a gun. I would rather everyone open carry so you know is armed. The argument of someone could run up and steal you gun and kill people is pure fear. Anyone can get there hands on a gun and laws only work on law a bidding people. So when restrictions occur it will never affect criminals.

 

[jentzschman]

The right to or the ability to? My point is you can still be put in jail by man or forced to do things, justified or not... If your free agency has been taken from you, you may be 'right' but that hasn't really served you well (in this life anyway).
Ultimately rights are just an idea agreed upon by the majority, so slowly but surely "rights" can and do change, if you disagree you're probably not looking back very far. So as contrary as it sounds, I'd say rights can be abused.

I think open carrying in public is stupid and unnecessary and just makes you a target and makes a lot of people uncomfortable. This isn't Somalia, quit showing off your arsenal. It's not helping anything.

Very well put. I guess I have become sensitive to this topic over the last few years, not even sure why really. But I believe I see a very out of control government and believe the only, or one of the very few things, that keep them in line is that they need to fear the people, not the other way around.

I see government all over this country trying hard to take away our rights and liberties through countless statutes, desperately tying to legislate human nature and not enforcing the laws already on the books. Next time there is another mass shooting (God forbid) and out come the anti-gun advocates crying for gun control. Each time they gain a little ground and if we do not exercise our rights our liberties will be lost or we will forget they exist all together.

 

[Caleb]

I don't mind open carry. What I think is funny is people are comfortable when that can't see a gun. I would rather everyone open carry so you know is armed. The argument of someone could run up and steal you gun and kill people is pure fear. Anyone can get there hands on a gun and laws only work on law a bidding people. So when restrictions occur it will never affect criminals.

It's not fear, it's fact that most crimes are crimes of opportunity. Don't give the criminals the opportunity to commit the crime and even though they can still go get a gun on their own, most of the time they'll get side tracked by the crack dealer and forget they were on their way to get a gun. (I kid, but seriously...) I'm all in favor of allowing open carry, however, outside of law enforcement, it seems those that open carry to the grocery store are the nut jobs that think they are pretty cool for having a gun on their side. I don't understand why anyone that wanted to carry wouldn't go spend one evening and go get their carry permit. The only reason someone wouldn't (that I can think of) is because they probably can't pass the background...which means I don't want them carrying anyways. Camping, hiking, etc, sure open carry all you want. I still carry concealed pretty much all the time regardless of activity.

 

[Houndoc]

Open carry simply to make a statement is usually foolish, but I support the right to do so. If we really want to convince the non-gun public that weapons are nothing to fear then doing as little as possible to draw attention is the best way to do it.

Main times I will carry open is if camping/hunting and simply don't want to take a pistol holster off simply to enter a store or fast food place.

 

[locknloadfzj80]

A "right" is just what the government wants to define as one, nothing more...
And evidently there are a lot of stupid people in this country who vote.

Dude.... This is just dumb.... Except the last statement. That is about 52.9% correct.

The right to or the ability to? My point is you can still be put in jail by man or forced to do things, justified or not... If your free agency has been taken from you, you may be 'right' but that hasn't really served you well (in this life anyway).
Ultimately rights are just an idea agreed upon by the majority, so slowly but surely "rights" can and do change, if you disagree you're probably not looking back very far. So as contrary as it sounds, I'd say rights can be abused.

I think open carrying in public is stupid and unnecessary and just makes you a target and makes a lot of people uncomfortable. This isn't Somalia, quit showing off your arsenal. It's not helping anything.

What you are describing is a privilege. If you feel our constitution is full of government allowed privileges then you're a huge part of the problem, in more ways then you can possibly realize.

Do you also feel the United States is a democracy? Or one should just obey SCOTUS rulings without question?

For your final paragraph there. This is another issue where you, and everyone with the same thought process, are a huge part of the problem. People are getting so sensitive about the RIGHT to keep and bear arms because there is almost no exposure to them. They dont see that the firearm is not some crazy killing machine that will destroy all in its wake. Then the exposure to them is via the next expendables movie or news story about someone shooting another person. Then leading to the demonization of the tool used in those acts and the right to keep and bear them. Leading to the current situation where someone sees a person carrying and they either bitch up and wine about how it made them uncomfortable. Or they go full retard and think that just because the person has a firearm on their hip, or back for that matter, that they have to be some psycho out to kill with said firearm.

By this thought process freedom of the press should only apply to press that the government approves. Or maybe religious freedom should only apply to a select type of religion. How about that freedom of speech? Yeah let's restrict that to the confines of one's home. Or you can say what you want in public. Only with the correct permit and so no one else can hear you.

I do agree that rights can, in essence, be abused. ie: freedom of assembly does don't give a right to loot or riot.

This isn't Somalia. You are correct about that. Here in The United States rights are not just something the next group or people who hold a political position can just change on a whim.

Very well put. I guess I have become sensitive to this topic over the last few years, not even sure why really. But I believe I see a very out of control government and believe the only, or one of the very few things, that keep them in line is that they need to fear the people, not the other way around.

I see government all over this country trying hard to take away our rights and liberties through countless statutes, desperately tying to legislate human nature and not enforcing the laws already on the books. Next time there is another mass shooting (God forbid) and out come the anti-gun advocates crying for gun control. Each time they gain a little ground and if we do not exercise our rights our liberties will be lost or we will forget they exist all together.

Well put? It couldn't be further from well put. If he was in California or New York it may have been well put....

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Where in that RIGHT does it say only where no one can see. Or only in the open while camping?

The second amendment protects the rest. Plain and simple. It also guarantees the peoples ability to do so. Why is it such a demonized issue that someone decides to exercise that right.

 

[skeptic]

This isn't Somalia. You are correct about that. Here in The United States rights are not just something the next group or people who hold a political position can just change on a whim.

I wish this were the case. Despite all the bad publicity and biased media, we seem to be slowly returning to this at least in the case of gun laws. However, the gov't with (and all too often without) the support of the people can and do pass laws that restrict our rights. Try open carrying in one of the many liberal states where it's illegal. You may think you have a constitutional right, and I'd agree that you do, but that's not going to stop the police from tossing your sorry butt behind bars.

The constitution makes no exception for felons (after parole has ended), mentally ill, age, suppressors, fully automatic weapons, magazine capacity, waiting periods, background checks, etc... All those laws are infringements on 2a rights, for good or bad, and they are all on the books and enforced.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Where in that RIGHT does it say only where no one can see. Or only in the open while camping?

The second amendment protects the rest. Plain and simple. It also guarantees the peoples ability to do so. Why is it such a demonized issue that someone decides to exercise that right.

I personally don't have a problem with it, but as I said above for various reasons I'd rather keep what I'm carrying hidden unless I'm out camping or something. The reason it's demonized, especially when carrying long guns to make a statement, is because of all the people that want to give up their 2a rights in order to take away ours. Way too many citizens in the US that don't believe in or agree with the constitution, and way too many politicians that want to increase the power of the gov't by taking away our rights. Open carry to prove a point just riles up the anti-gun crowd, it gives the biased media more ammunition (pun intended) to use against us, pressures some companies to adopt gun-free zones (stupid), let's liberal politicians say "see, all these guns are creating a hostile environment", etc.

As horrible as this may sound, I no longer trust the SCOTUS to always make a constitutionally correct decision. There is a right and a wrong way to protect our rights, I don't view intentionally making people uncomfortable or afraid as a good way to protect our 2a rights.

 

[locknloadfzj80]

I wish this were the case. Despite all the bad publicity and biased media, we seem to be slowly returning to this at least in the case of gun laws. However, the gov't with (and all too often without) the support of the people can and do pass laws that restrict our rights. Try open carrying in one of the many liberal states where it's illegal. You may think you have a constitutional right, and I'd agree that you do, but that's not going to stop the police from tossing your sorry butt behind bars.

The constitution makes no exception for felons (after parole has ended), mentally ill, age, suppressors, fully automatic weapons, magazine capacity, waiting periods, background checks, etc... All those laws are infringements on 2a rights, for good or bad, and they are all on the books and enforced.


I personally don't have a problem with it, but as I said above for various reasons I'd rather keep what I'm carrying hidden unless I'm out camping or something. The reason it's demonized, especially when carrying long guns to make a statement, is because of all the people that want to give up their 2a rights in order to take away ours. Way too many citizens in the US that don't believe in or agree with the constitution, and way too many politicians that want to increase the power of the gov't by taking away our rights. Open carry to prove a point just riles up the anti-gun crowd, it gives the biased media more ammunition (pun intended) to use against us, pressures some companies to adopt gun-free zones (stupid), let's liberal politicians say "see, all these guns are creating a hostile environment", etc.

As horrible as this may sound, I no longer trust the SCOTUS to always make a constitutionally correct decision. There is a right and a wrong way to protect our rights, I don't view intentionally making people uncomfortable or afraid as a good way to protect our 2a rights.

You still have this unalienable right. The people have chosen to allow their "leaders" to pass invalid laws that violate this right. Furthermore they idly sit by and watch, or put their head in the sand, when those who swore to uphold the constitution that protects those rights violate that oath and enforce an invalid law. Which is a crying shame. However, this is why I stay away from those places....

I would argue that the wording (see: the people not the person) of at least the second amendment does allow the the exception to a felon. As you are, through the judiciary process, restricting the right of a single person. Not the peoples. The rest are definitely infringements that should not be allowed.

I also want to make clear: I don't walk around with my REPR slung around by back or a six shooter on my thigh thinking I am going to reenact the O.K. corral. I rarely open carry. I also agree that it can have bad implications if someone is bent on doing harm. If they see you have a glock on your hip then that can make you the first target. Or it may give them the idea that they can try to gain possession of the firearm to do said harm. I however strongly disagree with the notion that it is or should be some big deal / stigma when someone does.

Oh and carrying a weapon for shock and awe political statments. Them to put a dumb video on YouTube of peoples/cops reaction is a d - bag move. However it is sad that that does cause such a stir and the simple act of carrying a firearm is such a political statment.

 

[skeptic]

You still have this unalienable right. The people have chosen to allow their "leaders" to pass invalid laws that violate this right. Furthermore they idly sit by and watch, or put their head in the sand, when those who swore to uphold the constitution that protects those rights violate that oath and enforce an invalid law. Which is a crying shame. However, this is why I stay away from those places....

Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree with what you are saying. There are many laws on the books that violate our rights.

I would argue that the wording (see: the people not the person) of at least the second amendment does allow the the exception to a felon. As you are, through the judiciary process, restricting the right of a single person. Not the peoples. The rest are definitely infringements that should not be allowed.

The bit about the felon is why I put in the bit about after parole has ended. In theory, once they have done their time, been released, not on parole, they are due their full constitutional rights as a citizen. I'm not about to go yelling from the rooftops that armed robbery felons should be allowed to carry concealed weapons once they are free, but if you want to get all constitutional about it....

I also want to make clear: I don't walk around with my REPR slung around by back or a six shooter on my thigh thinking I am going to reenact the O.K. corral. I rarely open carry. I also agree that it can have bad implications if someone is bent on doing harm. If they see you have a glock on your hip then that can make you the first target. Or it may give them the idea that they can try to gain possession of the firearm to do said harm. I however strongly disagree with the notion that it is or should be some big deal / stigma when someone does.

Again, I agree. It should not be a big deal or some kind of stimga for someone to open carry a pistol, but unfortunately it is a big deal to some people and they have a large portion of the gov't and media behind them to make it into an even bigger deal.

Oh and carrying a weapon for shock and awe political statments. Them to put a dumb video on YouTube of peoples/cops reaction is a d - bag move. However it is sad that that does cause such a stir and the simple act of carrying a firearm is such a political statment.

Yep. I'm on my way out the door, but if I remember I'll find and put up a video showing Fox vs. MSNBC (IIRC) reaction to an open carry incident.

 

[Tom95YJ]

I agree with most of you, camping, hiking, four wheeling when convenient, otherwise concealed.

This is exactly how I am with my firearm. When wheeling/camping I open carry any other time I am concealed.


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[broncomitch]

I don't do it but it doesn't bother me.

How does one "abuse" a right?

just like that...

good example of how to open carry, the NRA thinks so also..

 

[glockman]

Lots of good points being made here.
I personally used to hate seeing people open carry a pistol. My gut reaction was that they were trying to be bad ass. Maybe they are but I don't care now. I was at a muffler shop sitting in the waiting room, some young guy clean cut walks in with an XD on his hip. I started to think what a dbag but then I realized, if someone came in to rob this place, he would be their focus. I would be some guy in the waiting room. While he drew attention I'd draw my CC'd weapon. At that point my opinion changed. He can think he is bad ass all he wants. I don't care. He is just a plastic duck floating in the water to me.

 

[Kevin B.]

A couple months ago I saw a fellow in the REI on 33rd, had a small handgun in a holster on his hip. I decided to follow him around because I wanted to laugh at the reactions, but there weren't any. It was in plain view, but probably 50% of the people around him didn't notice it or didn't react at all, the other 50% saw the gun, eyes went straight to his face and checked him out, and then they decided he was fine and they moved on. I saw one 50 year old lady get all concerned and start looking around for Somebody To Do Something about him, but he didn't notice her and walked away and then so did she and that was that.

If you can walk through a liberal bastion like an REI on the east side of town and not elicit a reaction, I think you could carry anywhere legally allowed in Utah and not expect to have (or cause) a problem. I still don't think it's wise, on a personal level, but I don't see it being a problem on the societal level.

 

[TJDukit]

A couple months ago I saw a fellow in the REI on 33rd, had a small handgun in a holster on his hip. I decided to follow him around because I wanted to laugh at the reactions, but there weren't any. It was in plain view, but probably 50% of the people around him didn't notice it or didn't react at all, the other 50% saw the gun, eyes went straight to his face and checked him out, and then they decided he was fine and they moved on. I saw one 50 year old lady get all concerned and start looking around for Somebody To Do Something about him, but he didn't notice her and walked away and then so did she and that was that.

If you can walk through a liberal bastion like an REI on the east side of town and not elicit a reaction, I think you could carry anywhere legally allowed in Utah and not expect to have (or cause) a problem. I still don't think it's wise, on a personal level, but I don't see it being a problem on the societal level.

I think even more people are oblivious. I was in Dillards with my wife the other day. The Dillards Security guard stopped her to ask if he could help her find something. In the two minutes of talking to him she never noticed the guard was carrying a Glock 19, extra mag, flashlight and handcuffs. This actually upset me a little since this is how observant she is when she is out with my children.

Most people have zero situational awareness.

 

[sabatoa1]

I don't even own a regular holster and don't see the point to carry open because I do, but If I didn't have my CWP I would probably carry open. I don't really have a problem with carrying open and think that if more people carried than the crime rate would go down. I have seen more people wearing them open just because of how our society and politicians are frowning a pawn guns in general. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. You take their guns and they will start using machete's.

 

[sawtooth4x4]

if you are in the mountians or camping, open carry. but I pretty much 99% of the time conceal carry. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

[Houndoc]

just like that...

good example of how to open carry, the NRA thinks so also..

Great example of the wrong and right way to do things.

 

[skeptic]

Yep. I'm on my way out the door, but if I remember I'll find and put up a video showing Fox vs. MSNBC (IIRC) reaction to an open carry incident.

An example showing what the media can and will do to twist things like open carry around through bias and manipulation. You could also file this one under the category of promoting racism...

Watch this one first:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYKQJ4-N7LI&list=PLE75929B9EC4A4FB1&index=3

Same story, same guy, different media outlet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7syx26QtQIM&list=PLE75929B9EC4A4FB1&index=2