Why are people so stupid?

thefirstzukman

Finding Utah
Premium Member
#1
Why is it so hard for people to understand that it is their responsibility to insure a trails is legal for use? I see this way to often with SXS people, how do these people function day to day. Do they need signes saying not to rob banks and shoot random people? IDIOTS

Lynn Batterman
4 hrs
Here's the remnants of some folks who are screwing it up for the rest of us. Idiots. Onion Creek trail off 128 no. of Moab.




Tim Hair I don’t want to sound like I am endorsing this type of behavior. However on our last trip to St. George we followed a lot of trails out into some main washes and as we got to the main wash we went past a trail closed sign. The end of the trail that we started on had no signs. The other end had signs. The blm or forest service can’t mark one end of the trail and stop people from driving on them. Not sure about this case.
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Lynn Batterman
Well this was immediately next to the MAIN Onion Creek road/trail. So it is possible they came in from another area, but not likely.
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Scott Strong
Tim Hair it is your responsibility to know what the trails are... marked on not, get a map and know where you are.
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Tim Hair
Scott Strong I run 2 or 3 different map apps. We were coming coming across to the i15 wash in Warner valley. I ride there 4 times a year. I know the maps and the area. IT WAS A TOTAL SURPRISE! Our only conclusion was that they had just started marking.…See More
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Scott Strong
Tim Hair not trying to be a dick.... I would highly recommend to anyone who give a rats a$$ about riding areas to take a Tread Lightly course. I would guess that everyone including myself is guilty of being in the wrong place one time or another. You …See More
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Tim Hair
Scott Strong I do my best and yes I hope the government is coming up with something better. Lots of the maps you obtain from the forest service will be 2013 editions. We need to be united as a group!!! I don’t want any inch of any trail closed. We’ve lost way to much in our area!
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Scott Strong
Tim Hair and we are about to loose a lot more!
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Kasey Jensen
Tim Hair 98 percent of Warner valley is closed. Unless it's a permitted race. They closed the best riding down there in the land act years ago. And it's not marked except on boundary of closure
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Donald R Tussing
Scott Strong that does not work every time either,have been to the source for info and they didn’t have it.
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Tracy Fizer
Kasey Jensen ????? We ride there all the time
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Scott Strong
Donald R Tussing If you cant verify that you are legal to be somewhere then don't go there... its pretty simple, and pretty cut and dry ITS THE LAW. You are the one who has to find out if it is legal to ride somewhere!
https://le.utah.gov/.../Tit.../Chapter22/41-22-S12.2.html...
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Kevin B.

OLAF
Premium Member
Location
Stinkwater
#2
Seems like every time I see fresh tracks off the designated route anymore they're always side by side width. It's not just confirmation bias, I was actually keeping track at one point.

I have a reflexive hate for side by sides, but that's wrong. It's not the fault of the machine, it's the operator. And side by sides are the new hotness, and as a result their user base has a disproportionate number of abusers. Some are ignorant newbies that haven't been around long enough to know any better, and some are just assholes that don't care, but either way it's the side by side users that need to police their own. It burns me when I see a perfectly good road "closed" to full size 4wd traffic but open to side by side width, because it's not me or my user group causing the trouble.

Sorry, I just needed to piggyback on Scott's rant a little bit there. I'm all better now.
 
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glockman

I hate Jeeps
Location
Pleasant Grove
#3
Side by sides have for the first time in my life helped me understand anti gunners. I understand people have a right to own and ride sxs's, I know a lot of good people have them and use them responsibly but I hate them so damned bad that I am almost to the point I would support banning them outright. It's not rational, it's not libertarian of me, but gawd I hate them. Every single thing about them.

A few weeks ago we went out to Cherry Creek riding on a Sunday. I'll bet I passed five 5th wheel toy haulers >35" long that were pulling doubles so they could pull a stupid SxS or two. I can't even.
PS, my dad, my son and nearly everyone in my family has them and I never miss and opportunity to tell them how bad I hate their stupid SxS.
Sorry for the rant.
 

Coco

Supporting Vendor!
Supporting Vendor
Location
Lehi, UT
#4
I enjoy my SXS, just not the $3400 engine rebuild I just did on it, but that's besides the point... :rofl:

But I agree. I saw the original post on FB and Scotts reply as well, and still firmly believe the dealerships, as well as the fellow SXS communities need to teach people about public lands (even if it seems like common sense). That's the thing I hate about the SXS community, is anyone can go out and buy one, and go use it. They need to be responsible and know the ways of our land. I'd love to have some classes offered that teach people about land use, just not sure if people would take the time to learn. Dealerships could have an active role in teaching as they are selling the machines, but I really don't think they care either.

People can make the same argument about anti-gunners though. People are so quick to blame the gun, not the person that operated said gun (as unfortunately we had another shooting last night :() its the same thing here. You can't blame the machine for the moron behind the wheel.
 

Kevin B.

OLAF
Premium Member
Location
Stinkwater
#6
I've never rented a Jeep or ATV in Moab. Exactly how active are the rental companies on the education front? I'm sure they're involved in trail days and such, but do renters get the Tread Lightly treatment before they drive off?
 

moab_cj5

Well-Known Member
#7
I've never rented a Jeep or ATV in Moab. Exactly how active are the rental companies on the education front? I'm sure they're involved in trail days and such, but do renters get the Tread Lightly treatment before they drive off?
The times I have rented a Jeep, they basically just tell you what trails you can, and can't take their equipment on. No other instruction really given.
 

Coco

Supporting Vendor!
Supporting Vendor
Location
Lehi, UT
#8
I have a friend that used to work at LROR with me and moved to Moab and works at one of the UTV rental shops (actually a member on here, I just cant remember his user name). I asked him how much education they give when renting, and he said he personally lets people know etiquette, and I think he said his shop is starting to do the same.
 

crawler dude12

Active Member
Location
Orem
#10
I’m who coco is talking about. I work for a Rental and tour company here in moab. Whenever I rent out a machine I always go over stay on trail and trail etiquette. And even then I still see them every once in a while go off trail. Whenever I’m on tour and I see anyone off trail I always stop the tour and stop the people off trail and let them know it’s off trail. I tell my rentals is a $1500 fine and they’ll impound the vehicle. Which they would have to pay full days rental for all the days it’s in impound. As far as onion creek goes I don’t ever really send people out that way due to how far it is away from town.
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
#11
SXS and ATVs. Saw the same thing during the deer hunt on Dowd Mountain. Not near as clearly marked as the one posted, but a lot of tracks heading down the hiking trail to Hide Out.
 

thefirstzukman

Finding Utah
Premium Member
#12
I've been doing a lot of thinking about this for the last few days. I would love to see required education to all off road users, but at the same time i hate the thought of added regulations. I used to enjoy the quarterly training days that we used to put on, I think that something like that should be required at the purchase of a new ATV/UTV and taught alongside of the drivers ed program. When I was in the scouting program (I HATE THE SCOUTING PROGRAM) I took advantage of that opportunity to engrave into the minds the tread lightly program and the importance of leave no trace. Just frustrating to see how many people just don't understand that they are part of the problem.
 

lhracing

Premium Member
Premium Member
Location
Layton, UT
#13
I was out on Chicken Corners a couple of weeks ago and saw the same thing, there were fresh tracks going everywhere, it just made me sick seeing all the abuse. There are open OHV areas like Little Sara and then there are the trails. When not in an “open OHV area” then everyone needs to stay on the ”designated route”. Also I believe everyone who has an OHV (ATV, SXS or 4X4) needs to adopt and ride/drive by the guidelines of Tread Lightly. We all have the choice to be responsible users of our public lands and take care of them or risk losing the access we all enjoy. As a side note I have a RZR also, I do think that industry has put them in to the hands of individuals that don't know and sometimes don't care about the ramifications of their actions. I would like the see the Manufactures at a minimum include a Tread Lightly handout in the documentation kit.
 
#14
Look how many trails there are, coming off white Knuckle Hill, next time you're there...

Last time in Moab a Jeep was bypassing a down hill step in the rocks on the back side of Metal Masher (the part coming down from the canyon rim) due to a broken front axle shaft. He was worried because he didn't have four wheel drive. Mind you, this was a Jeep with 37" tires and a linked suspension and the step was no bigger than 12", going DOWNHILL.

A re-education would be good all around!
I don't understand the idea of doing a trail if you're not capable of doing the trail. Rating systems are there for a reason. If you're not comfortable or capable, find a different trail. Creating bypasses is NOT doing the trail. There is no glory in telling all your imaginary friends on fakebook what trails you did but not mentioning that you bypassed everything. Open areas are just that, play there! Trails do not need to be 5 vehicles wide with high banks on every turn.

I'm convinced that it's a lack of education. I'm glad I got into this when I did because people were concerned about educating and being educated. It bothers me to no end to see the lack of concern now. To this day I'm still nervous to get out and take a pee for fear of stepping on the crusty dirt.

There's my rant. Thank you.
 

thefirstzukman

Finding Utah
Premium Member
#15
It happens in all aspects of off-roading. SXS vehicles are just more available, I’ve seen very capable high dollar rock crawlers take lines up obstacles that were 50’ from the trail just because they were more challenging. I’ve seen 2 buggies tear up Pritchett canyon while screwing around and eventually tipping 1 rig over dumping oil and all other types of trash on the ground. Side by Sides are one area that there is a chance to somewhat require some kind of training. You could say that Jeep could require some kind of training to purchase a Rubicon’s or a trailready rig... or offer some kind of rebate for attending a class. It’s a big issue and there are people out there just waiting to catch someone doing something they shouldn’t so they can use them as an example.
 

Kevin B.

OLAF
Premium Member
Location
Stinkwater
#16
One answer would be for the BLM and FS to require OHV permits for everything that isn't a road, and work some serious Tread Lightlyish education into the process of getting that permit.

I'm not sure I like that answer, but it is an answer.
 
#17
If we can't rely on people to police themselves, that's when the fish cop's step in to police the idiots.

Seen this time and time again from living in Canada to California. None trail savvy people buy new toy and case and of beer, blast around off trail and give bad wrap to trail savvy folk.

It's just a matter of time before the BLM/ Park & Rec are left with two options
1). Shut down or restrict trails leaving nobody happy
2). Police idiots and make it harder for the rest of us to enjoy trail systems.

Pick your poison.
 

Greg

Wanderlusting
Admin
#18
There have been more than a few incidents in Colorado in the last couple years where some jackass takes his SxS off-trail and someone nearby documents it with their phone, taking pics and video. That info is passed on to the proper authorities and the offenders have been prosecuted in court. Everyone has a phone and camera these days.

I'm trying to find a link to one I have in mind, the guys is in the San Juan mountains and drives right off the trail and thru a marshy bog, tearing it up and doing all kinds of damage. Someone nearby films the incident.

I think those that care for our continued access and spend time on the trails are the best resource.... watch for people that are blatantly off-trail, doing damage and document it. Approaching those doing the damage seems to be a bad idea, it's almost always going to end bad. Obviously you need to know what the rules are for the area your in and not make false accusations, if it's an open travel area.

I hate to advocate for filming others, but the BLM & Forest Service Rangers can't be everywhere. If we care about public lands and our continued access to these trails, we need to police other users ourselves.
 

gijohn40

too poor to wheel... :(
Location
Layton, Utah
#20
How about we make a short (10-15 min) video explaining tread lightly and proper trail usage. We could burn it to a DVD and have the companies that sell them give the dvd to the customer as a gift. I am sure we could burn several thousand for not very much. Maybe get a grant from tread lightly to do it.
WE can do something about it or just sit here and bitch about it....

Sixstring steve you think you could do this?
 
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