Wolves in Utah

thefirstzukman

Finding Utah
Supporting Member
Delisting the wolf gives control to the state, that's what I want.... Let the state biologists decide how to handle them. I just don't want them here eating what they want and growing to large numbers. In time we will find out that you can't control them and they will kill them all. Just saying it will happen, you can't controll them.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
This has always been interesting to me. If you lose $100,000 due to lost cows, whats the cost to change the way you raise them? Meaning using private, fenced in area for feeding, supplementing with corn or other food, etc. I wondered if there is some sort of happy medium.

Lets evaluate this a little bit. When a rancher talks about running 1200 head of cattle, that actually means they are running closer to 2200 cattle. A cow/calf pair is considered one head since the calves are sold off each year. Do the math and figure out what it would cost to raise or buy enough feed to feed that many cattle without grazing. It would more than tripple the cost you are paying for beef.

Also the land I am talking about that is close to sheep creek is 90% private land and is fenced. The last time I checked, fences do not keep wolves and other predators out.

There must be a significant cost savings grazing on public lands as compared to 100% corn fed. So if a rancher uses open range feeding and loses a percentage of the cows to wolves, does he still come out ahead?

That depends on how big the percentage. Wolves will kill for sport, not just food.

Also, if a rancher is grazing on public lands, does he have a right to object to what the wolves are doing?

Yes he does. But when it comes to wolves, he cannot do anything about it.

Luckily the rancher has the choice to use that land or not, the wolf does not necessarily have a choice of where it lives as we have moved into its home.

But the rancher cannot do anything about it.....even if it is on private land.


I am just thinking about this from the Wolfs point of view, They are doing what they have always done in the wild, eat big slow animals. Humans brought some really big slow animals, stuck them on their land and now have issues with the wolfs doing what they do. Why don't we go ahead and just pave the world, kill all of the cows and move onto soylent green? There is a lot more to grazing than meets the eye, there is also a lot more to killing off a species just because you want a cheap hamburger.

The big issue right now is that nothing can be done to protect their herds.
 

JL Rockies

Binders Fulla Expo
Location
Draper
I don't eat beef or hunt so I'm cool with wolves. If wolves start dressing up like grandmothers and attacking children then I will change my position.
 

rholbrook

Well-Known Member
Location
Kaysville, Ut
The reality is, those in charge of managing this are the same ones who want to take our guns from us. If we have no guns to hunt with, what difference does it make if our other game populations dwindle. The ranchers get reimbursed for their loss. I used to be able to swing a mean sling and I have built a bow and arrow in scouts. I once saw a Daniel Boone movie where Dan wrestled a bear with his bowie knife.

My BIL leases the hunting rights on some property here in state and the owner of this property drives the roads eradicating the bears that continue to kill his cows. He just shoots them and leaves them. My BIL sells the bear tags very cheaply so he can help the owner out. I have camped there and had bear come up to the truck as we were sleeping in the shell. Every time I have been there, I have seen bear.

The reality of it is, the land owner will take care of the issue themselves. If the wolf is on public lands, they should be safe from the land owners but once they cross over onto the private land, they're gone. A lot of this goes on and no one knows about it.
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
The ranchers get reimbursed for their loss.


True.....sort of. They may get reimbursed for that cow after they have had to go through everything to prove that it was loss due to a predator that qualifies for reimbursement. Its not just like you have a cow come up missing or you find a dead cow on the ground and you walk into the office and they cut you a check. There has to be a complete investigation, review, etc, etc, etc.

But this still does not take into account complete replacement costs. They are constantly replacing older cows with yearlings in their own herd. Most people don't understand the science that is behind ranching, but there is a lot of genetics worked into the breeding of these cows that has taken decades to get what they want in a cow. A rancher does not just go out and buy a cow to replace one he lost, he replaces with his own genetics. So if they are having to replace more breeding cows with yearlings out of the heard there are still losses that are not recouped from what they might get paid.
 

jeep-N-montero

Formerly black_ZJ
Location
Bountiful
Now if they could create a wolf that eats only nuisance dear along the bench I would be ecstatic!

There has been some very creative management and prevention methods used in other states to prevent or minimize their impact on herds, but it does cost money. Some good reading:
http://www.defenders.org/programs_a...trust/wolf_predation_and_livestock_losses.php

http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/mskoglund/kudos_to_oregon_for_funding_no.html

http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2008/04/18/gray-wolf-livestock-loss-mitigation-act/
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
Interesting thread, to put it kindly.

On the track in the photo, certainly could be wolf but proof being that is it "one inch larger than any dog" is non-sense. In my work I see some pretty dang big dogs, with feet sized to match. The wolf is a large canine, but not some supper-sized beast towering over any and all domestic dogs.

I also do not follow the logic that if wolves are in Sheep Creek (in my mind assuming the Sheep Creek near Flaming Gorge, less than 20 miles from the Wyoming line) AF is what, another 100 miles south?

Last of all, I find it very hard to believe that the "fish cops" are that hell-bent on hiding wolves from the public. Just look at all the publicity when a pair was sighted and one trapped 10 years or so back.

As far as the impact on livestock, yes all preditors have an impact on ranchers. No it is not illegal for a rancher to shoot a wolf that is killing his stock (see the links I posted early on.)

And if 75 cattle were worth $100,000 profit there would be a heck of a lot more ranchers out there!

But back on topic, yes the wolf should be delisted and scientifically managed like any other species.

End of discussion, from me at least.
 

Grim

Well-Known Member
Location
Roy, UT
all i know is that , cow and elk taste a LOT better than wolf or coyote . thats a fact. and yes i do still hunt for my food in "this day and age"
 

anderson750

I'm working on it Rose
Location
Price, Utah
I also do not follow the logic that if wolves are in Sheep Creek (in my mind assuming the Sheep Creek near Flaming Gorge, less than 20 miles from the Wyoming line) AF is what, another 100 miles south?

Sheep Creek is between Spanish Fork & Price on Hwy 6.


No it is not illegal for a rancher to shoot a wolf that is killing his stock (see the links I posted early on.)

I will read those later tonight, but my understanding is that the only place it is legal to shoot them in Utah is the area that is East of I15 & North of I80.

And if 75 cattle were worth $100,000 profit there would be a heck of a lot more ranchers out there!

Do the math......their calves sold this year for $1.47 per pound on 650 pound calf average. That equates to $990 per calf. If you take into account the additional costs & losses to replace those cows and calfs, you could easily approach $100,000.

Let's also look ouside the cost of the mother cows and calfs and look at the bulls. They run angus, brahma & red gelvey bulls. The average cost of these bulls that they are replacing each year due to age and breeding ability is around $2,000-2,500 each. If the assumption was made that 4 of the 75 were bulls, your replacement cost is between 8 & 10K.

Keep in mind they have to incur these costs before they receive any possible reimbursement. I would imagine that would be pretty hard on cash flow since these ranchers really only receive one pay check a year.
 

Chevycrew

Well-Known Member
Location
WVC, UT
As far as hiding the wolves, Idaho does the same thing. They will only admit to wolves in new areas once one has been taken...
 

del0075

Active Member
received this from a friend of mine, thought it was interesting. i have been told that wolves are the only animal that will hunt a human. this kinda confirms that......





"This wolf came running toward Rene last night to attack her. She had to drop her bow & pull her pistol. She shot it in the head about 10 feet from her. She had to shoot it a couple more times to actually kill it. Crazy! This – not even a week after Shane’s dogs were killed by wolves."

He also told about a group of hunters being guided by a local outfitter in his email. Here's what they said:

"Took a group of out-of-state elk archery hunters from the Great Lakes region last week. They ended up calling in a pack of 17 wolves by elk cow calling. None of the hunters had a sidearm or wolf tag and it was a very traumatic experience. The wolves surrounded us. All of those hunters went home early, very disturbed claiming that these wolves are very different from the Great Lakes wolves. These Idaho wolves actually “hunt” you, and were not afraid! "

Folks better all pack their side arms when in the foothills or backcountry (a lot of us do anyway). .44 mag or .357 mag would suffice. Be careful out there.
 

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thefirstzukman

Finding Utah
Supporting Member
2010 a 32 year old woman was killed in anchorage Alaska the only tracks around the body were wolf and the medical examiner ruled she was mauled to death by animals.

Two wolf attacks on humans occurred in 2000.
*
Icy Bay, Alaska - Six-year-old John Stenglein and a nine-year-old friend were playing outside his family's trailer at a logging camp when a wild wolf came out of the woods towards the boys. The boys ran and the wolf attacked young Stenglein from the back, biting him on the back and buttocks. Adults, hearing the boy's screams, came and chased the wolf away. The wolf returned a few moments later and was shot. According to Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) officials, the wolf was a healthy wild wolf that apparently attacked without provocation. The boy was flown to Yakutat and recieved stitches there for his wounds. Later, however, the bites became infected and the boy had to be Hospitalized.
*
Vargas Island, British Colombia - University student, Scott Langevin, 23, was on a kayak trip with friends. They camped out on a beach and, about 1 AM, Langevin awoke with something pulling on his sleeping bag. He looked out and came face to face with a wild wolf. Langevin yelled at the wolf and it attacked, biting him on the hand. Langevin attempted to force the wolf toward a nearby campfire, but as he turned, the wolf jumped on his back and started biting him on the back of his head. Friends, hearing his yells, came to his aid and scared the wolf away. Fifty (50) stitches were required to close the wound on Langevin's head. British Colombia Ministry of Enviroment officials speculate the reason for the attack was due to the wolves occasionally being fed by humans although there was no evidence that Langevin or any of his party fed these animals.


I didn't have to search very hard.
 
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SAMI

Formerly Beardy McGee
Location
SLC, UT
2010 a 32 year old woman was killed in anchorage Alaska the only tracks around the body were wolf and the medical examiner ruled she was mauled to death by animals.

Full story:

Wolves kill teacher in Alaska

Villagers in Chignik Lake on the Alaska Peninsula take precautions after the first known fatal wolf attack in U.S. in modern times.

March 13, 2010|By Kim Murphy

Reporting from Seattle — Hunters were combing the snowy brush around Chignik Lake, Alaska, on Friday in an attempt to hunt down up to four wolves that killed a 32-year-old special education teacher in the first known fatal wolf attack in the U.S. in modern times.

But the wolves were elusive, and villagers were hoping that state game officials would send in a helicopter to help track the animals, Village Council President Johnny Lind said.

"They've been looking and scouting around, and the wolves are definitely still around, but they're smart, and they take off before you can get close to them," Lind said.

Candice Berner, a special education teacher who traveled among several rural schools on the Alaska Peninsula, 475 miles southwest of Anchorage, was attacked while jogging and listening to her iPod Monday evening on the deserted, 3-mile-long road that leads out from the village to its small airstrip.

A native of Slippery Rock, Pa., she had been working in Alaska only since August. Her body was found by snowmobilers a short time after the attack. It had been dragged off the road and partially eaten, and was surrounded by wolf prints.

"Our investigation points to wolves being the most likely culprit. It is the only predatory animal that is active in the area that we're aware of, and we also believe the wolves have been increasingly threatening to people in the area," said Megan Peters, spokeswoman for the Alaska State Troopers. "They've been getting too close, circling, making people fearful for their safety."

Christi Aleck, another resident of the village, said that while there are always wolves in the area, three to four have been lingering unusually close over the past week or so and have been sighted again since the attack.

"They come in at nighttime, not very far from the village, and they're just kind of watching," she said. "They're waiting for somebody else to go out again, I guess."

She said villagers are driving their children to school and keeping them indoors during recess.

"People are scared. Oh yeah, they're scared," she said. "Nobody's walking around anywhere. I mean, wolves have always hung around in the wintertime, but they've never attacked anyone."

The only known previous fatal wolf attack in North America over the last 100 years occurred in 2005, when a young geology student was attacked and partially eaten by a pack of wolves in northern Saskatchewan.

In at least two other cases, there were attacks -- in Alaska and again in Saskatchewan -- that were halted by rescuers before they became fatal.

"What the research shows is that in the last 10 or 20 years, as wolves have kind of re-colonized areas where they were extirpated around the turn of the 20th century, and as people have also developed more habits of going out into national parks and wilderness areas, we've had more aggressive encounters," said Mark McNay, a retired Alaskan wildlife biologist who has studied wolf attacks.

Wildlife attacks in Alaska are relatively common. "Certainly we have bear maulings, we have people bitten by wolves, we have people that are stomped by moose," Peters said. "Having an incident where a human and animal cross paths and it doesn't end well, that's normal. But we don't have any other case on hand that we're aware of where someone was actually killed by a wolf."

Peters said state troopers had ruled out the possibility that Berner had died from any other cause and was later dragged away by wolves.

kim.murphy@latimes.com
 

rholbrook

Well-Known Member
Location
Kaysville, Ut
May 2007 -Two Catron County school children were followed home from the bus stop by 3 wolves.

December 2007 -Glenwood elementary school a wolf was seen on the playground after multiple reports of the animal seen in the town.

Jan 2008 -Wolf kill within 70 yards of a school bus stop in Idaho
 
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