Jeep Willys 'Crawler' project
- Thread starter Greg
- Start date
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
Some pretty significant progress the last couple days, mainly I finished cutting & welding up the pieces for the frame rail. I used a winch plate in the front to tie the rails together, then a temp. piece of 2x2 out back to make it all secure. I dropped the winch plate down towards the bottom of the frame rails, in an effort to get the winch to sit a bit lower and not block the radiator. I plan to add a front bumper that will go over the winch plate, adding more strength and making for a better look. I made a frame plate to mount the winch plate.The frame rails are beefy (2 x 4 x 3/16") but I figure a plate will spread out the load and forces of a flexing frame would be wise. The winch/frame plate was given a few holes for rossete welds. Once I figure out how the rear bumper & body mount will work out, I'll make something permanent. The frame rails still need to be fish plated and boxed in at the ends, but it's a start! The frame is square to within an 1/8"!
Since I had the body sitting on the frame, I had to mock up a tire and determine about where where the wheelbase would end up. I pulled my 35" spare of the JKU and rolled it in place up front, locating it much further forward than a stock Willys. As it sits, the front tire is almost as far forward as the frame rail, for a near 90* approach angle! This setup should net a 90-91" wheelbase, which it just about right. I still need to cut the rear wheel well so a 35" tire will fit... that's coming soon enough.
The frame and tire are sitting at about what will be full compression. While I love the low center of gravity, I want this build to have a decent amount of up-travel.... I'm going to shoot for 5" up travel minimum, without being too tall.
Another big deal.... I really wanted a GM 5.3 engine, but without a sh!t-ton of sheetmetal work (that I really don't want to tackle) to move the grill forward a V8 simply won't fit... just too tight for a radiator and electric fan. Also, others have raised the front fenders up and that gains you a little more room between the grill and firewall, in addition to more fender clearance but again... that would require more sheetmetal work than I'm willing to do. So I've resigned to being happy with a V6, settling on a Vortec 4.3. It'll be a good balance of weight and power and will help keep the Toyota axles alive, compared to a V8. This isn't an easy conclusion, I love V8's in Jeeps!
Since I had the body sitting on the frame, I had to mock up a tire and determine about where where the wheelbase would end up. I pulled my 35" spare of the JKU and rolled it in place up front, locating it much further forward than a stock Willys. As it sits, the front tire is almost as far forward as the frame rail, for a near 90* approach angle! This setup should net a 90-91" wheelbase, which it just about right. I still need to cut the rear wheel well so a 35" tire will fit... that's coming soon enough.
The frame and tire are sitting at about what will be full compression. While I love the low center of gravity, I want this build to have a decent amount of up-travel.... I'm going to shoot for 5" up travel minimum, without being too tall.
Another big deal.... I really wanted a GM 5.3 engine, but without a sh!t-ton of sheetmetal work (that I really don't want to tackle) to move the grill forward a V8 simply won't fit... just too tight for a radiator and electric fan. Also, others have raised the front fenders up and that gains you a little more room between the grill and firewall, in addition to more fender clearance but again... that would require more sheetmetal work than I'm willing to do. So I've resigned to being happy with a V6, settling on a Vortec 4.3. It'll be a good balance of weight and power and will help keep the Toyota axles alive, compared to a V8. This isn't an easy conclusion, I love V8's in Jeeps!
D
Deleted member 12904
Guest
My wife has a 2015 Silverado with what looks to be an ls based 4.3 with 285hp. It's a monster and honestly tows almost as good as my 2002 5.3
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
I've looked into those, it does seem like an incredible engine... problem is, they're not very swap-friendly from what I've read and there is no PS pump. I'll have to give them another look though.
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
In spite of the heat, I've been working away and trying to make progress.... there have been a few more important parts purchased as well.
I had already traced out the cuts for the larger rear wheel wells, decided it was time to cut them because the 35" tire that I test fit wouldn't clear. I had traced out a 36" radius, offsetting the cut towards the back of the tub for a little more wheelbase. I used a cheap HF body saw and it worked well enough, but the cuts aren't perfectly straight.... good enough though. In the near future, I'll roll some small round steel and weld it next to the cut so it's not a sharp edge. Here's both sides.... I took a flap disc to the cut to clean it up and even it out.
Next up, I started building some body mounts out of 1/4" steel plate.... a few cuts, welding and drilling and they're in place. I need to build 2 more and add another set of mounts (and tub supports) further back where I added to the tub. I played with the idea of using HDPE as body mounts, but decided against it. Hockey Pucks are on the way! :busted:
I also picked up a 2005 Vortec 4.3 with 114k miles on it for $400. I was able to hear it run and the owner has maintained it well. I really like this version of the 4.3, it makes 195 HP and 260 FT/LBS and should have a wide torque curve. This one has MultiPort FI, a roller cam and Vortec heads so while it's no V8, I think it'll push the Willys around well enough. The MPFI isn't nearly as troublesome as the CPFI in earlier models. The owner was doing a GM 5.3 swap into his V6 truck and had everything from a donor, so he have me damn near everything from the V6 truck that he didn't need. I'll either have my harness cut down to standalone or buy one. He gave me the full engine harness with ECU as well as fuse box and relays. There should much less once it's all trimmed up!
Lastly, I came across a deal of a set of 5, 35x12.5x17 BFG KM2's that I couldn't pass up.... they were in Denver, but for $400 I had to have them. The owner was willing to deliver to GJ, since he was headed this direction anyhow, so that worked out great. They're used and a bit beat up, but should be a great tire for the Willys to start out on.
I'm getting to the point where the real work begins....
I had already traced out the cuts for the larger rear wheel wells, decided it was time to cut them because the 35" tire that I test fit wouldn't clear. I had traced out a 36" radius, offsetting the cut towards the back of the tub for a little more wheelbase. I used a cheap HF body saw and it worked well enough, but the cuts aren't perfectly straight.... good enough though. In the near future, I'll roll some small round steel and weld it next to the cut so it's not a sharp edge. Here's both sides.... I took a flap disc to the cut to clean it up and even it out.
Next up, I started building some body mounts out of 1/4" steel plate.... a few cuts, welding and drilling and they're in place. I need to build 2 more and add another set of mounts (and tub supports) further back where I added to the tub. I played with the idea of using HDPE as body mounts, but decided against it. Hockey Pucks are on the way! :busted:
I also picked up a 2005 Vortec 4.3 with 114k miles on it for $400. I was able to hear it run and the owner has maintained it well. I really like this version of the 4.3, it makes 195 HP and 260 FT/LBS and should have a wide torque curve. This one has MultiPort FI, a roller cam and Vortec heads so while it's no V8, I think it'll push the Willys around well enough. The MPFI isn't nearly as troublesome as the CPFI in earlier models. The owner was doing a GM 5.3 swap into his V6 truck and had everything from a donor, so he have me damn near everything from the V6 truck that he didn't need. I'll either have my harness cut down to standalone or buy one. He gave me the full engine harness with ECU as well as fuse box and relays. There should much less once it's all trimmed up!
Lastly, I came across a deal of a set of 5, 35x12.5x17 BFG KM2's that I couldn't pass up.... they were in Denver, but for $400 I had to have them. The owner was willing to deliver to GJ, since he was headed this direction anyhow, so that worked out great. They're used and a bit beat up, but should be a great tire for the Willys to start out on.
I'm getting to the point where the real work begins....
RockChucker
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Highland
looks like you need some 5 on 5.5 17" wheels now...right? I have some Black Rock Vipers. Gray. Nearly new. Set of 5.
XJEEPER
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Highland Springs
^^^ I swapped a TBI 4.3 into a truck a couple of decades ago to replace a 4cyl and 180HP vs the stock 77HP made it a kick in the pants to drive.......still miss that little street scooter.
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
Yeah, a 4.3 pushed your FTM buggy around well enough! I think it'll equal a pretty balanced rig & drivetrain.
He's using Toyota axles, so he will need 6x5.5" instead.
I hate to admit it, but.... Carl is right.
It'll be interesting to see how this one works out in the end, I would imagine the final weight will be sub-3k #'s and with light axles and small tires it should get around quite well.
You will be done with yours before Carl is done with his!
I don't know about that, I'm pretty much done with mine already.
Hahahaha, but still not real funny.
I don't know about that, I'm pretty much done with mine already.
- Location
- West Haven, UT
Project is progressing nicely Greg.
Great choice to keep the winch down to the lower portion of the frame rails. I did the same thing on my JKU when I built my bumpers and don't regret if for a moment.
You will love that little Vortec 4.3, it's a great powerplant in a small package.
Mike
Great choice to keep the winch down to the lower portion of the frame rails. I did the same thing on my JKU when I built my bumpers and don't regret if for a moment.
You will love that little Vortec 4.3, it's a great powerplant in a small package.
Mike
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
Appreciate it, Mike! I'm happy with how it's coming together... need to buckle down and make some real progress soon!
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
More progress in terms of parts acquisition... found a set of built up Dana 44's for a hell of a deal! They are loaded with 5.38 gears, Detroit lockers F & R, upgraded alloy shafts (33 spline in the rear), disc brakes, Warn hubs and 4 link brackets already in place, plus a tie rod with rod ends and hydro assist mounts. I'll need to cut off the rear coil spring mounts, change out the rear-lower 4 link mounts and cut off the shock mounts... but that's no problem! The rear axle is from a Scout (?) and is 58" wide, front is from a narrow track Cherokee Chief (?) and sits 61" wide. I think the widths are about perfect, don't mind the width differences and they came with spacers if I want to make them match. Yeah, they're used and have been sitting around for awhile... they need some cleanup and paint, but that's easy.
I have the stock Toyota axles that I was going to use in this project, but these are locked and geared.... and Dana axles just belong under a Flatty. The Toyota axles are posted for sale now. I'd really like to start gathering link parts and work on getting the axles under the chassis!
I have the stock Toyota axles that I was going to use in this project, but these are locked and geared.... and Dana axles just belong under a Flatty. The Toyota axles are posted for sale now.
I'd really like to start gathering link parts and work on getting the axles under the chassis!
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
I haven't made any worthwhile progress since I've been a little gimpy (shoulder surgery 4 weeks ago), but was feeling good enough to set things up the other day and check axle widths, get ideas for where suspension links, shocks, steering box & the track bar will need to sit. @I Lean called it, my steering box needs to sit right where my low winch mount is, especially if I push the front axle forward as far as I'd like to. I'll have to put the winch on top of the frame rails. I did purchase a forward throw Astro steering box, frame end track bar bracket and rear-upper 4 link brackets recently... the last 2 coming from @Dan Fredrickson and Ruffstuff. Plan on getting more suspension fab parts from them in the near future!
I tried to set the tub up close to what ride height will be, dragged the Dana 44's underneath and rolled the 35's into their respective places. I really want to have a decent amount of up travel, at least 5-6"... my old TJ had 3" of lift with 40" tires and the front has about 3" up travel. It was fine for the slow crawling, but running at speed (which is fun!) was not enjoyable as it was bottoming out often. A low COG is great, but I don't know that I'll be shooting for super low. I'd like to start gathering parts for the suspension links and work on getting the Willys to 'roller' status this Winter, probably without shocks for now. I think once I'm putting the front end together, I'll ditch the stock front fenders, cut the hood 2-3" to raise the fender height and probably build a small set of tube fenders.
If I push the front axle forward quite a bit and get the rear axle back a little further, I think I can get 98" wheelbase which will be a pretty good compromise for the length needed for steep climbs in Moab, but still be short enough for the technical rock trails like 21 Road.
I think this thing also needs a set of 37's. The 35's are just looking too small for the height and length. I wanted a set of Krawlers, but having 2nd guesses on that. The previous owner ran sticky 37's on these axles with good luck. I'm hoping the Willys will end up pretty light (3,200 #'s?), the V6 isn't a powerhouse and I'm usually a pretty reserved driver. A new set of DOT 37" tires would be OK.... there's a set of 35" Maxxis Short Course tires in the future, too thanks to @RockChucker. They'll be a 2nd set to play around with, Dave says they measure around 37" tall so that'll fit well!
And a shot of both Flattys... in very different stages!
I did purchase a forward throw Astro steering box, frame end track bar bracket and rear-upper 4 link brackets recently... the last 2 coming from @Dan Fredrickson and Ruffstuff. Plan on getting more suspension fab parts from them in the near future!I tried to set the tub up close to what ride height will be, dragged the Dana 44's underneath and rolled the 35's into their respective places. I really want to have a decent amount of up travel, at least 5-6"... my old TJ had 3" of lift with 40" tires and the front has about 3" up travel. It was fine for the slow crawling, but running at speed (which is fun!) was not enjoyable as it was bottoming out often. A low COG is great, but I don't know that I'll be shooting for super low. I'd like to start gathering parts for the suspension links and work on getting the Willys to 'roller' status this Winter, probably without shocks for now. I think once I'm putting the front end together, I'll ditch the stock front fenders, cut the hood 2-3" to raise the fender height and probably build a small set of tube fenders.
If I push the front axle forward quite a bit and get the rear axle back a little further, I think I can get 98" wheelbase which will be a pretty good compromise for the length needed for steep climbs in Moab, but still be short enough for the technical rock trails like 21 Road.
I think this thing also needs a set of 37's. The 35's are just looking too small for the height and length. I wanted a set of Krawlers, but having 2nd guesses on that. The previous owner ran sticky 37's on these axles with good luck. I'm hoping the Willys will end up pretty light (3,200 #'s?), the V6 isn't a powerhouse and I'm usually a pretty reserved driver. A new set of DOT 37" tires would be OK.... there's a set of 35" Maxxis Short Course tires in the future, too thanks to @RockChucker. They'll be a 2nd set to play around with, Dave says they measure around 37" tall so that'll fit well!
And a shot of both Flattys... in very different stages!
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BlueWolfFab
Running Behind
- Location
- Eagle Mountain
I know you're a ways away from it, but what are your thoughts on the cage?
- Location
- Grand Junction, CO
I'm not too sure, something pretty simple but with triangulation so it has plenty of strength. I know I mentioned having you build it, but I may do it myself. I have a bender.... and the parts to convert it to air over hydro. Might as well use what I have... it's been a long time since I've built a cage!