The KTM 4CS fork thread...

[Gravy]

Good thing Luke's new bike is a '14.

 

[Cascadia]

Guess I'll have to wait for the '16 to come out for next season.

 

[Vonski]

OK, resurrecting this thread...

Last week I had the opportunity to actually ride a bike with 4CS forks that were awesome. Of course, "awesome" to one person may not be the same to others. What I mean is this... the bike I rode controllably soaked up baseball to grapefruit sized rocks and chop well and the first 3" to 4" of shaft stroke was what I would call "supple". This is the opposite of what my 4CS forks did (and still do to some degree). After a revalve, the harshness of the initial stroke was better, but still unusually harsh. It was difficult to hold a line through smaller rocks and chop. On the other end of the spectrum, bottoming resistance was good and pounding through whoops is where the fork shines, as long as you can push passed the initial stroke, it works pretty well. For example, if all you ever did was ride fast whoops out at Cherry Creek, this fork would work fine. Riding stuff like Moab, 5MOH, Soldiers Pass, Chimney Rock, or any rocky/ledgey/technical singletrack is a rough and punishing day.

To be clear, I don't fault the tuner that did my first and only revalve (and I didn't spend a ton of money on new valves or anything fancy internally). I feel he did the best he could with a new fork and limited testing. From what I understand, he has since started converting them internally to more of a pre-'14 closed chamber fork with the comp. and rebound adjusters on both legs on opposite ends. I talked to him awhile back and he offered to do the same for mine, but I'm going to try some things first and maybe even go a different direction with custom valves.

First, I believe my spring rates are too heavy, so before I go down the valving route again, I'm going to try springs first (I was given some 4CS .42 fork springs for free and I've got a lighter 5.2 shock spring already, so its not going to cost me anything but time). However, if this doesn't get me anywhere, I'm probably going to send them out for fancy custom valves and internal voodoo.

...and just think, for those who know me, there may actually come a day when I stop bitching about these damn forks.

 

[Vonski]

BTW, the procedure to change fork springs and fill with fluid isn't rocket science, but its way more involved that you'd think. 75% of the fluid goes through the bottom cap, the rest through the top, pressurize with an air chuck a few times, blah...blah...blah.

 

[anderson750]

What special voodoo are you looking at? Huck valves or something similar?

 

[Vonski]

What special voodoo are you looking at? Huck valves or something similar?

Yes and yes. I like what your buddy is doing at NOST. Also, I rode Chestnut's Husky with Kreft stuff and its the cat's PJs, and not even sprung for my weight.

 

[anderson750]

Yes and yes. I like what your buddy is doing at NOST. Also, I rode Chestnut's Husky with Kreft stuff and its the cat's PJs, and not even sprung for my weight.

I like the way Pete thinks, but he has not worked on a lot of 4 CS forks yet with his new system. Pete is great to work with but you will probably not get exactly what you want on the first go around, just because he has not worked on a lot of them. He needs to spend some R&D time and it is hard to make adjustments when you have to ship to do it. For the time and experience with the 4CS I would go Kreft.

 

[Vonski]

I like the way Pete thinks, but he has not worked on a lot of 4 CS forks yet with his new system. Pete is great to work with but you will probably not get exactly what you want on the first go around, just because he has not worked on a lot of them. He needs to spend some R&D time and it is hard to make adjustments when you have to ship to do it. For the time and experience with the 4CS I would go Kreft.

. I've now had real world experience with Kreft stuff, so that would be the route I'd probably go.

 

[djgardner]

I'm glad I found this thread...thanks for resurrecting it.

I'm seriously in the market for a 2016 KTM (either the 350XC or 300XC...I really want the 350 because I want to stay on a 4 stroke, and fuel injection, but its a grand more expensive, so I'll probably get the 300)...and I'm concerned about the forks (I've talked to some people that love them, some that hate them...but they both said they are hard to tune). So this thread was very helpful.

Does anyone know if they are making any changes/improvement on the 2016 bikes? OR are the Husky forks better/worse easier to tune? I know the dealer meeting for KTM was last weekend, so hopefully I can call Edge and they can give me the run down on the new bikes.

Another thought I had, was just getting a 350SX...anyone have any experience on those forks?

I'm new to the KTM world...so I appreciate any help you can give.

 

[anderson750]

I'm glad I found this thread...thanks for resurrecting it.

I'm seriously in the market for a 2016 KTM (either the 350XC or 300XC...I really want the 350 because I want to stay on a 4 stroke, and fuel injection, but its a grand more expensive, so I'll probably get the 300)...and I'm concerned about the forks (I've talked to some people that love them, some that hate them...but they both said they are hard to tune). So this thread was very helpful.

Does anyone know if they are making any changes/improvement on the 2016 bikes? OR are the Husky forks better/worse easier to tune? I know the dealer meeting for KTM was last weekend, so hopefully I can call Edge and they can give me the run down on the new bikes.

Another thought I had, was just getting a 350SX...anyone have any experience on those forks?

I'm new to the KTM world...so I appreciate any help you can give.

Any dealership is going to sugar coat and tell you everything is fixed. Keep an eye out HERE for information on the '16 4cs as people start buying them.

 

[Vonski]

Any dealership is going to sugar coat and tell you everything is fixed. Keep an eye out HERE for information on the '16 4cs as people start buying them.

^^^^ This.

I'm a fan of KTMs, but good offroad suspension comes before e-start, hyd. clutches, brembo brakes, 6-speed trannies, etc... My next bike may be from a manufacturer that isn't trying to reinvent the wheel and has suspension that is simple, proven, and cheap to tune. Everything else, I can live with.

 

[djgardner]

^^^^ This.

I'm a fan of KTMs, but good offroad suspension comes before e-start, hyd. clutches, brembo brakes, 6-speed trannies, etc... My next bike may be from a manufacturer that isn't trying to reinvent the wheel and has suspension that is simple, proven, and cheap to tune. Everything else, I can live with.

I tend to agree with you...which is why I've never owned a KTM (I'm considering one now because I want a two stroke or a 350)...so what manufacturer are you thinking?

 

[Vonski]

I tend to agree with you...which is why I've never owned a KTM (I'm considering one now because I want a two stroke or a 350)...so what manufacturer are you thinking?

Ha! You weren't supposed to call me out on that. . I'm not sure there is a serious alternative. Don't get me wrong, my 300 xc is a great bike. I just wish I would have bought a '13 instead of going through the year long 4cs learning curve (which continues). I actually spent most of today swapping springs adjusting preload and following the quirky little steps to add fluid the correct way. Over the next couple weeks I'll be playing with fluid levels too. I'm fine with complexity if its superior to the old closed chamber forks, but its not... or not yet anyway.

 

[djgardner]

Ha! You weren't supposed to call me out on that. . I'm not sure there is a serious alternative. Don't get me wrong, my 300 xc is a great bike. I just wish I would have bought a '13 instead of going through the year long 4cs learning curve (which continues). I actually spent most of today swapping springs adjusting preload and following the quirky little steps to add fluid the correct way. Over the next couple weeks I'll be playing with fluid levels too. I'm fine with complexity if its superior to the old closed chamber forks, but its not... or not yet anyway.

Lol...I though maybe you were eying that new YZ250x, or maybe looking at converting a motocross bike to an off-road bike (which is an option for me if I go the 350 route...I just wish the KTM SX models had kick starters...).

 

[rholbrook]

Lol...I though maybe you were eying that new YZ250x, or maybe looking at converting a motocross bike to an off-road bike (which is an option for me if I go the 350 route...I just wish the KTM SX models had kick starters...).

And atleast one more gear.

If you ride that YZ250X until you need a top end then you can get a Eric Gore 300 kit or by then, I bet Yamaha will be offering the 300 kit at the dealer again. It would be interesting to look at the new 250X case to see if it has a spot on the front of the case with empty bolt holes to bolt a starter. The new YZ450s and YZ250Fs had them a year before they released the new YZ250FX or what ever it is called and now it has the magic button. Maybe I am just dreaming again.

 

[Gravy]

I'm pretty sure the 350 xc doesn't have a kickstarter either on the 14s and 15s. Although I believe it can be added. It's a no go for me if it can't be. (Rekluse + no Kickstart = dnf).

 

[rholbrook]

Actually I do remember Mike's 350XCW, you met him and his son Corby at one of the races. His never had a kick starter, I also know it was never a problem for him and he had a Rekluse Core EXP in his. It would make you nervouse though

 

[Gravy]

I only say that because Kelton had a 450sx with no kickstarter... and we got down in some gnarly technical section/ ditch and the battery died after a bunch of stall/ restarts and there was absolutely no way to push start it down there, so between the 3 of us we basically dragged it 50 yards uphill through the bush until we hit ground open and flat enough to push start. If it was one guy on his own, he'd be walking 20 miles to the truck.

 

[djgardner]

I'm pretty sure the 350 xc doesn't have a kickstarter either on the 14s and 15s. Although I believe it can be added. It's a no go for me if it can't be. (Rekluse + no Kickstart = dnf).

No kickstarter is a deal breaker.

But a DNF in a race isn't really what I worry about (though that stinks) because there is help coming (sweepers)...its trail riding and having the battery die miles and miles from the truck that really worries me (I'm not sure how practical carrying a separate battery would be-I know the new ones are pretty light). Maybe I'm over thinking it...is the battery any more likely to die (I've never owned an estart bike before) than to throw a chain, or otherwise disable the bike miles and miles from the truck?

 

[djgardner]

Good news...according to KTM USA's site...the 2016 350XCs have a kick starter and an electric start (and are 7 pounds lighter than the 2015, and the suspension has been "changed"...whatever that means):

http://www.ktm.com/us/enduro/350-xc-f/