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Willys Crawler 2.0 aka The Bastard

RockChucker

RockChucker

Well-Known Member
Location
Highland
Greg said:
I like your thoughts and ideas.... do you have an newsletter I can subscribe to and learn more? X-D

Seriously though, that's not a bad idea. It would be pretty neat to have a Gen 4 6.0 and the 6L90E it came with from the factory, working together.

The crawl ratio with a 6L90E & NP205 in 1st gear and 4 low isn't crazy low though, looks like 41 to 1 with 5.13's in the axles. The torque of the V8 would help, but I think I'd end up bumping up a lot of stuff with more wheel speed than I'd prefer. The adapter for a NP205 to 6L90E is $700! One of my concerns is how the 6L90E works in 4 low, far as gear selection & shifting. I saw a neat aftermarket rail shifter for the 6L90E awhile ago, but don't remember what brand it was.

I know nothing about the NP205, other than the crappy low range gear ratio and bulletproof nature. Looks like cable shifters are readily available. Wonder how well it would fit with my narrow frame?

I wonder how well a mildly built 5.3 (aftermarket cam, TBSS intake, flat top pistons) would work with a 4L60E (deep 1st gear) and a 4.3 ratio Atlas. Run a higher stall like Nate was suggesting. That comes in at 67 to 1 crawl ratio w 5.13's.

I have a lot to consider when it comes to the drivetrain selection, engine choice and crawl ratio... want to get it right the first time.
Click to expand...

No newsletter sorry. Just done a lot of thinking regarding the newer 6 speed stuff. And I've bench raced the thought of selling off my Hero and running a ford 205 with the new 6 speed. But the Hero is paid for and has a 29 spline input for my 6l90.

A couple thoughts:
I'd do a 6L80 over the 90. The 90 has a huge 29 spline output (same as the allison 1000 i believe). The 6l80 has a 32 spline output like a 4l80, th400, etc. I'm not amazingly familiar with the ford np205, but logic says you would be able to swap in a GM input gear and bolt it up? Additionally, the 6l90 is longer than the 6l80. In fact, my 6l90 is within 1/16" of what my 4l80 is. The case on the 6l90 is shorter, but the tcase adapter is longer, so overall the length is a wash. I only went with the 90 because it was what I could find, the bonus is I won't be having to change any driveshaft lengths.

Regarding shifting, I will be running a 4l80 winters shifter that I modified with a RADesigns tap shift kit. In theory, my trans tune will make the trans behave like a full sequential manual gear box. The parameters won't let the trans shift out of whatever gear it is set in via tap shifter. In theory.

I bought a factory LS3 torque converter. I think I ended up with the CTSV one. but it might have been the camaro one. Should be about 2500 stall.

Gearing: I agree with Carl. If you don't have gears yet, go to 5.38. Especially if you decide on a 6 speed trans. Deep OD. After I geared my Jeep to 5.38, I've found that I spend most of my time in midrange (2.4:1) and only used low range (4.3) when i'm putting up the trail to keep the trans in 3rd or 4th so the torque converter was locked up. I couldn't generate the wheelspeed needed for bigger climbs. I think had I realized this and put it in midrange the last time I tried to climb White Knuckle Hill, I would have made it. That put my crawl ratio at about 32:1 with the 4l80. I had a stock 6.0 converter, so should have been around 1800 stall. Just some food for thought.
 
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1969honda

1969honda

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
Cache
No adapter needed if you run the 6l80e. Just transfer and drill/tap the GM 6 bolt pattern on the Ford box, swap the input accordingly and reuse the factory 4wd adapter. That's my plan for my K5 that is getting put on a 6 month hold shortly.
I have an gen 4 lc9/6l80/ford Np205 combo I'm going to run.

There's a way @jpndave showed me that you can run a center console shifter from a cobalt SS or similar with the TU/TD buttons for manual control. It involves adding two wires between the shifter and transmission, they are not populated in a truck harness, and a inline resistor. After that flash the TEHCM with a corvette tune to get manual control with the TU/TD. IIRC the engine and transmission however do need to be of the same year to talk correctly.
 
1969honda

1969honda

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Location
Cache
You can always add a NWF Ecobox or ORD Magnum for even better gearing and easier time mating the NP205 ...
 
Ashcat

Ashcat

Active Member
Location
Wisco
A married Ford 205 is
18” wide clocked flat (horse a piece in oe drop)

11.5” high without a chop, clocked flat (this is oe frame mount casting sticking up)

9.5” output offset C/L +/-

5” output drop in oe config (no adapter/clocking ring)

I know you don’t have room but for anyone curious, the NWF Black Box Titan-i measures 5-5/16” long. There is no shorter doubler on the market.

As info with a 117.5 wb, 31” subframe, 40” links, 41” subframe to axle tube nets a 28.5 driveshaft front and rear.
 
Greg

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
Admin
Location
Grand Junction, CO
To make the drivetrain selection even more confusing, I found an L33 engine nearby, at a decent price. These are the aluminium block 5.3l truck engine, which is what I'm running in the El Camino. What I'm thinking about doing is bore the block out to LS1 specs to gain cubic inches and more torque. There's plenty of meat in the sleeves to make it a 5.7l... or a poor mans LS1.

The other positive aspect of this is I already have a 411 ECU that would work to control the engine and transmission and since I now have HP Tuners, I could copy the file for the ECU in my El Camino and loaded on to the computer for the Willys! I'd just need a standalone harness from PSI Conversions.

I think I would build it up similar to the engine in the El Camino, with an aftermarket cam and possibly a TBSS intake, which is known for increasing bottom end torque. I'm not sure how much of a gain it would be over the factory L33 intake, so that's something to look into.

So, I'd have to settle for around 450 HP... 😁

I'd plan on running a built up 4L60E and an Atlas. I think this would be a decently affordable, simple and easy to pull off combo.

With a 3.06 first gear, 4.3 low range and 5.38's the Crawl Ratio would end up at 70 to 1 in 1st gear. The L33 bored out to LS specs should work pretty well with deep gearing.
 
Greg

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
Admin
Location
Grand Junction, CO
Nothing too exciting, but the Bastard is insured, plated and I have a title in my name! I'm putting the cart before the horse for sure, but the title was dated and I needed to get it in my name before the fees started adding up.

20210122_170921.jpg


I've finished all the final gusseting and welding on the frame joints, which was quite a bit of fab work to get done. Since that was completed, I put the body back on the frame and rolled the axles and tires under it, so I can figure out where shock mounts need to be, start fitting up links, shock mounts, etc. The suspension setup is going to be fun to figure out.

20210122_164111.jpg
 
Greg

Greg

Make RME Rockcrawling Again!
Admin
Location
Grand Junction, CO
Soooooo.... I've been out in the shop, mocking up the suspension on the Willys 2.0. My plan for this build has been to run Fox 14" CO's, air bumps & a proper anti-sway bar.

Now the dilemma.... things get real tight in the front end with the shocks AND air bumps. I have room outside the frame (far as I can tell) for one, but not sure about both. The location of the pumpkin presents a issue as well. I might be able to put air bumps inside the frame, but then my front upper link gets crowded.

20210122_172151.jpg

So I like the idea of ORI's, love the idea of how they work (2 separate Nitrogen chambers, upper and lower that make them work way more stable than standard air shocks.) But people have had issues with them (thread on Pirate scared me away for a bit). But ORI's don't need additional bump stops, limiting straps, sway bars, etc. They are usually super stable, do great with jumping, off camber stuff, etc. They can be a bit tricky to 'tune', but it's really nothing more than Nitrogen pressures and setting up the shocks so they're in the center of their travel at ride height.

Packaging the ORI's would be SO. MUCH. EASIER. I'd have to beef up the shock mounts substantially, but that can be done since I need to build it all anyway. Seems like most people are leery of ORI's due to tuning issues and the unknown and I get that, but they seem to perform great.
 
mbryson

mbryson

.......a few dollars more
Supporting Member
Location
Bountiful, land of rocks
Greg said:
Soooooo.... I've been out in the shop, mocking up the suspension on the Willys 2.0. My plan for this build has been to run Fox 14" CO's, air bumps & a proper anti-sway bar.

Now the dilemma.... things get real tight in the front end with the shocks AND air bumps. I have room outside the frame (far as I can tell) for one, but not sure about both. The location of the pumpkin presents a issue as well. I might be able to put air bumps inside the frame, but then my front upper link gets crowded.

View attachment 134356

So I like the idea of ORI's, love the idea of how they work (2 separate Nitrogen chambers, upper and lower that make them work way more stable than standard air shocks.) But people have had issues with them (thread on Pirate scared me away for a bit). But ORI's don't need additional bump stops, limiting straps, sway bars, etc. They are usually super stable, do great with jumping, off camber stuff, etc. They can be a bit tricky to 'tune', but it's really nothing more than Nitrogen pressures and setting up the shocks so they're in the center of their travel at ride height.

Packaging the ORI's would be SO. MUCH. EASIER. I'd have to beef up the shock mounts substantially, but that can be done since I need to build it all anyway. Seems like most people are leery of ORI's due to tuning issues and the unknown and I get that, but they seem to perform great.
Click to expand...
Brent Orton is a huge ORI fan. He put them on his Willys for the exact reason you’re pointing out. The cost is what shuts me down
 
P

Pile of parts

Well-Known Member
Location
South Jordan
Now you have me worried... I didn't read the threads on Pirate and love mine. However, I'm less than a year into them. Packaging all that on a a full frame Jeep is one of the biggest reasons I went with ORIs. They're an all in one solution and the only real downside I could find was fading at extended high speed bumps. Not really my style anyway and an additional reservoir can be added if it turns out to be.

As far as tuning... I'm certainly a rookie but was more intimidated by coilovers, spring rates, etc. I set my ORIs with more down travel than up with the ride height factored in. I'm running the 14" and have about 5"-6" of "shaft" exposed at ride height. That leaves 8"-9" down. Remember, these measurements run out to be quite a bit out at the wheel and can be even greater depending on the angle they're set at. When it comes to tuning, I set mine up at the suggested starting point, which I believe was 100 psi. I ran the Jeep around the neighborhood and did some turns in a parking lot. I felt like it was a little loose so I bumped it up to 120psi and haven't touched it since. I decided that to get a real feel I was going to have to run it on familiar trails and see. Remember, I was coming from only ever having driven leaf sprung Jeeps so this was my first time with links. Long story short, I love how it handled after running some pretty tough stuff. Very stable., Very flexible and traction with no wheel hop is great. Could it be fine tuned even better? Maybe but, for a trail Jeep, I haven't found reason to mess with it. What I'm saying is, if an idiot like me can make it work, so can you.
 
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