TRUMP: Whats the real deal?

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Location
WVC, UT
The GOV has been shut down for 16 days 9 hours and 50 minutes.

Who do you know that is either at home without pay because of this or required to still show up to work without knowing if or when they will get paid? I know too many people that are in the second situation.
 

jeeper

Currently without Jeep
Location
So Jo, Ut
The GOV has been shut down for 16 days 9 hours and 50 minutes.

Who do you know that is either at home without pay because of this or required to still show up to work without knowing if or when they will get paid? I know too many people that are in the second situation.
Everyone will still get paid, just like every other time the government shuts down. Now they are just getting paid for doing nothing.
 

Homefryy

Premium Member
Premium Member
Location
Salt Lake City
Everyone will still get paid, just like every other time the government shuts down. Now they are just getting paid for doing nothing.
Except the contractors that won't get paid and the people struggling living paycheck to paycheck that won't be able to pay bills and best case have late fees they will have to pay that they can't afford. Maybe things were already pretty bad and this will be late payment that gets their car repossessed or the eviction process started.
 

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Location
WVC, UT
Everyone will still get paid, just like every other time the government shuts down. Now they are just getting paid for doing nothing.
I hope thats the case for my co-workers sake but they are in the boat that are required to show up to work. All of their PTO requests were canceled over the holidays, they aren't allowed to take sick time, its just a pretty crappy position to be in.
 

jeeper

Currently without Jeep
Location
So Jo, Ut
I hope thats the case for my co-workers sake but they are in the boat that are required to show up to work. All of their PTO requests were canceled over the holidays, they aren't allowed to take sick time, its just a pretty crappy position to be in.
It's been the case each time before.

Except the contractors that won't get paid and the people struggling living paycheck to paycheck that won't be able to pay bills and best case have late fees they will have to pay that they can't afford. Maybe things were already pretty bad and this will be late payment that gets their car repossessed or the eviction process started.
When people live paycheck to paycheck, they are living outside of their means already (for the most part). Having been a landlord for many years, and seeing how people manage (or lack of) their money, I don't feel all that bad. Sure, it sucks... but good decision making could alleviate a lot of the suck.

IMO though, EVERY person who is in congress during a period of shut down should be fired... They should also be required to live by each law they write, and not exempt themselves. They are not being hurt one bit by their antics and shenanigans. Tie their personal pay to a balanced budget that reduces debt, and the countries problems would be solved in a heartbeat.
 

ID Bronco

Registered User
Location
Idaho Falls, ID
IMO though, EVERY person who is in congress during a period of shut down should be fired... They should also be required to live by each law they write, and not exempt themselves. They are not being hurt one bit by their antics and shenanigans. Tie their personal pay to a balanced budget that reduces debt, and the countries problems would be solved in a heartbeat.
AMEN!

Are all of these people sitting home or working and just swearing at Trump, or are they calling their legislators and every Democratic legislator who won't include the border wall money?

Having never worked for the government I must have a different paradigm. When I worked for someone else, I would often be sent home early when it was slow, I would have vacation denied at times, I could show up for work and find none there for me. Now that I have some say in my job, I still have slow times, I go months without any paycheck on occasion, it stinks, it's tough but I know it can happen and we have been able to manage each time. I do consider that a blessing from God, but also proper planning and such. So why is it impossible for a government employee to fathom a time when their job isn't automatic? Maybe because they went into that type of employment for stability because no politician ever dared actually shut it down? Nothing is guaranteed and as said before everyone ends up getting paid. That's way more than I get when I don't sell anything in a month. I still work, usually more hours and harder to try to produce a pay check, but I never get that money later.

My understanding is that about 11% of the govt. is shut down. If that is true, who on here thinks our government couldn't use at least an 11% reduction? Yes the employees are being used here, but Trump is one side of the story. I can't believe Chucky and Nancy wouldn't do anything to keep the gravy train running, they are for the working man.......right?
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
The stupid thing about the shutdown is it being over a policy that is widely opposed.

They couldn't get it passed with full Republican control so pointless to think it will happen with Democrats controlling the House.

Pass a budget and then debate the wall and other policy issues.
 

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Location
WVC, UT
When people live paycheck to paycheck, they are living outside of their means already (for the most part). Having been a landlord for many years, and seeing how people manage (or lack of) their money, I don't feel all that bad. Sure, it sucks... but good decision making could alleviate a lot of the suck.
I absolutely feel bad for them. These are working members of our communities, not people on the curb with their hands out waiting for the check to roll in. I agree though that good decision making could alleviate a lot of the suck but not by the workers affected by this shutdown. Its hard enough to get qualified people to work in government and stupid shutdowns like this or the one Cruz forced years ago only makes that worse.

I think Trump is an absolute moron and the only person he cares about is himself. If I had voted for him I would be ashamed, but I did not. I don't understand how someone with morals or family values could justify checking his box on that ballot in 2016 or in 2020, best choice or anyone but X or whatever. I guess that puts me in the "never Trump" camp.

To the question that started this thread...its not just about whether I'm doing better or not. Have you never sat in bed at night and wondered why you were born where you were and not a few hundred miles south? Sure, your parents or grandparents or someone else down the line decided to make a better life for themselves and immigrate to the US but how is that any different from the people in Central America that are trying to come here today? Is there no need for compassion to them? Doing it the right or wrong way they are trying to improve their circumstances. Have you ever talked with someone thats tried to escape poverty or lack of employment, or something similar? I know our experiences shape the way we see things but my views were shaped while on my LDS mission in Spain. The only people that would talk to us were mostly from South America. Many where there on overstayed visas. They worked where they could for under the table pay while trying to get work visas. They were and are good people despite their legal status. I don't know that answer but I do understand that there is a cost to trying to improve the lives of others in addition to mine. I am also absolutely willing to shoulder part of that cost.

Its apparent that my views are in the minority here which is why I've kept my mouth shut to this point.
 
I do feel bad for the average Joe government worker that is in a pickle right now. I'm torn as to whether or not the shutdown as a whole is a great thing, as I don't know all of the details and don't have time to dive in to what it all entails. While I think Trump the personality is a Moron, I also feel that he is the only MoFo with the balls to stand up for what he thinks is the best for the country compared to others in the past. I like that he has balls. Do I agree with everything he does or says? No. But I think he is doing what HE THINKS is best for the country and not letting DC politics take its normal forever long course to get anything done. There are some negative side effects to this, but without his strong armed method of getting things done, I feel like NOTHING would get done, as divided as the leadership is in DC. I tried to give Obama the benefit of the doubt at first, but all he ever did was tell the country exactly what he thought they wanted to hear regardless of his actual intentions. Free healthcare, no more war, blah blah, all pretty words but crappy or no positive outcome, IMO.

Regarding those trying to escape poverty, this is a difficult balancing act of helping others vs. protecting/helping our own. Bottom line is, we need to put a stop to illegal border crossing and then come up with a reasonable process for good intention-ed immigrants to pass through, documented and on a course of either permanent residency or a temporary, documented stay. At the same time, there are LOTS of citizens that also need help and resources. (which is a whole other can-of-worm conversation)

Let's pose this hypothetical situation: If a terrorist were to walk across the border, build a bomb, and blow up an events center with thousands of people inside, would the conversation change after we found out he came across the south border into the US? I think it would, or I at least hope it would. Why not be proactive with our approach to safe, legal immigration? Trump has never said he wants to keep all immigrants out. Just the ones who want to come illegally, and especially those with ill-intentions or no intentions of contributing to society. Other countries have walls and very strict immigration policies. Why not us?
 

Houndoc

Registered User
Location
Grantsville
Its apparent that my views are in the minority here which is why I've kept my mouth shut to this point.
Actually I think a lot of us agree very strongly with you and I suspect that you are more in line with the majority of Americans.

Sadly it is the extremists on the far ends of the political spectrum (both right and left) that tend to be the most vocal and thus give the apprearance that their veiws are widely accepted.

It is sad that we have lost a home for those in the political middle.
 

Caleb

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Supporting Vendor
Location
Riverton
@nnnnnate I think the only thing I really disagree with you on is you saying they are forced to go to work without a paycheck. They have every right and all the free agency in the world to go find another non-government job. They are making the decision to go to work un-paid rather than go and find a paying job. Guess what will put a real hurt on a government shutdown...if those unpaid employees went and found new jobs.
 

nnnnnate

Well-Known Member
Location
WVC, UT
That's absolutely true Caleb. My experience with this is interesting and I'll expand.

I work in a computer forensic lab that's funded by a 3 letter. I'm a contractor but everyone else is either local city or state or an employee if the 3 letter than funds us.

One guy in particular waited 2 years from the point of his job interviews to when he started due to background stuff he had no control of. He left a good job with good future prospects because the "good" our lab does.

Another guy did 22 years at Sandy PD, retired, jumped into the private sector then after getting a call from our lab director dropped his new job at Zions Bank with a higher salary and better benefits again to join back in on work he saw was "good" and beneficial to the community. He is required to work 9 hour days but he regularly works 10.5+ and never takes a lunch break. He got that phone call because we went through 3 rounds of interviews and backgrounds that ended up washing all acceptable candidates. It was kind of a fluke and was certainly a hail Mary that led to the phone call but he's the best guy we have in the office.

It takes about 2 years to get trained up to the level our guys need to be at before they can really perform like they need to. Weeks of training and months of test prep.

These aren't the guys you want to go find another job because the politicians are acting like fools. They might be less likely to do that than other fed employees but I don't know their breaking point and I don't want to know it.
 

UT410

On jack stands.
Premium Member
Location
Holladay
I don't know anything and I'll be the first to admit it. I wonder, though, how long do they need to be shut down to save $5 billion in wages so that the border wall concession would be an equal wash?
 

Herzog

somewhat damaged
Admin
Location
Kamas, UT
I don't know anything and I'll be the first to admit it. I wonder, though, how long do they need to be shut down to save $5 billion in wages so that the border wall concession would be an equal wash?
Shutdown is a more than just for the wall. IMO there's some stuff going on.

Big guess here, but the chatter is that tomorrow national emergency will be declared [scratch that, I'm betting that's a card he's going to hold in his back pocket, fund are already appropriated] and the military will build the wall from the last budget that was passed. It will be done lawfully too. I'm sure we'll hear about all the butthurt people but the human trafficking shit needs to stop.

If the trump announcement at the border doesn't happen tomorrow, it will probably be because of some news about RGB. Let's see what happens!

People who think Trump is a moron don't realize the tactics this guy uses. He just sold rice to China. lol
 
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Caleb

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
Supporting Vendor
Location
Riverton
I don't know anything and I'll be the first to admit it. I wonder, though, how long do they need to be shut down to save $5 billion in wages so that the border wall concession would be an equal wash?
I was joking with the guys at work saying similar. I was saying this shut down is going to save a ton of money and Trump will claim the victory :D (fwiw, I couldn't care less who the president is, I look at policy and not who's policy it is. I have nothing against Trump and would rather him than the previous clown show or the alternative clown in the last election. Lesser of the evils maybe, but at least he's clearly not influenced by the political swamp).
 

Noahfecks

El Destructo!
Premium Member
The stupid thing about the shutdown is it being over a policy that is widely opposed.
That's a loaded statement, widely opposed how? People in every state and territory oppose preventing illegal immigration? Sadly you are right.

The truth is that the people by percentage of voter, overwhelmingly, oppose illegal immigration and are in favor of preventing it.
 

Noahfecks

El Destructo!
Premium Member
The only leverage that Trump has is not to pass the budget until he gets border security, there is absolutely 0% chance he gets anything done on immigration reform after the fact with that nutcase Pelosi holding down the house. Pelosi makes non-partisan reform impossible and a long term battle inevitable. These are the cards Trump was dealt and I am glad he has the stugatz to play them.

So .gov employees have to face the reality that everyone else in the private sector has always had to face, your job isn't guaranteed. There will always be anecdotal exceptions but as a whole .gov employees are compensated 2.5 times what their civilian counterparts are. Do you know what this is? The world smallest violin playing cry me a river.

I have personally been significantly impacted financially by this shutdown and I say keep it shut as long as it takes to secure our borders.

Anecdotal I know, but in my small community we currently have a murder committed by an illegal, and a major robbery ($850K) committed by illegals that openly live in the sanctuary state of CA and are suspects in half a dozen major ($1MM+) robberies recently. We gotta put an end to this sh!t
 
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